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This is touted out so much but switching cars over to EVs would require the grid to be increased less than 50% as EVs use about 30% the energy of a combustion e

This is touted out so much but switching cars over to EVs would require the grid to be increased less than 50% as EVs use about 30% the energy of a combustion engine. Given that most cars will be charged over night the reality is that it would be less than this.

skgoa 8y ago
Currently all BEVs charge at their maximum rate the moment they are connected to the charger. Which almost always happens in late afternoon or early evening. I.e. the exact time when the energy usage is at a peak already. While there are many ideas regarding how this load can be pushed into the dead of night, nothing concrete has even been proposed, yet. So I wouldn't dismiss this issue that quickly, especially when we are talking about a (theoretical) rapid adoption of BEVs.
- mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
  Ummm, a timer to allow charging at certain time only? Seems pretty simple to me.
  - skgoa 8y ago
    A simple timer isn't enough. You would want the chargers to be networked, so that the power company can optimize the load. That's not impossible, but it also doesn't exist, yet.
    - robjan 8y ago
      The UK power grid (which this article is talking about) is being converted to a smart grid. All new electric meters report their usage continuously which can be used to discover usage patterns. I imagine that chargers would also be connected to smart meters.
      - makomk 8y ago
        As it currently stands, most of the installed base of smart meters can't even communicate to electricity companies other than the one that originally installed them, so I'd say that's a long way off.
- davidgould 8y ago
  > Currently all BEVs charge at their maximum rate the moment they are connected to the charger. This is not remotely close to true. Most BEVs have timed and/or location aware charging. My own Spark EV for example (a very low end BEV) can be scheduled to charge during certain hours each day of the week. I use this because our electric utility has lower rates from 11PM until 7AM. So no matter when I plug it, the car waits for the cheap electric rate period.
  - skgoa 8y ago
    "Can" and "does" are not the same, though.
    - davidgould 8y ago
      Well, mine both can and does because the utility makes it worth while. Your original claim was "all". Generally this problem is easily solved by adjusting pricing to encourage the desired charge times. Certainly there may be a few holdouts who don't take advantage, but a few is not a problem.
- PuffinBlue 8y ago
  > Currently all BEVs charge at their maximum rate the moment they are connected to the charger. Which almost always happens in late afternoon or early evening. I.e. the exact time when the energy usage is at a peak already. Citation needed. What is actually true is that all BEV apart from (I think) the Renault Twizzy have charge timers built into the car. There are already financial incentives to charge overnight with specific EV tariffs and some electricity suppliers will do the charger installation that talks directly to the provider via smart meter tech to charge at the best rate cost wise and grid wise. Equally, people don't just come home every single day and recharge thair car. I know this directly as my last neighbour has a Nissan Leaf and charged it every 4 or 5 days and did so overnight.
ChrisRR 8y ago
Increase the capacity of the entire grid in only 14 years? 50% is one hell of an increase!
- clort 8y ago
  The 50% increase is not required immediately. Only new cars would be required to be electric. Modern car longevity is about 10-20 years (Wikipedia suggests 200,000 miles in the USA) so full capacity might not be needed for 20-30 years.
- Tade0 8y ago
  Less than 3% each year. Also electricity consumption in the UK has fallen 18.5% since its peak in 2005, so a good part of the capacity is already there. Given that has been consistently falling at a rate of 1.5%/yr there may not be any new capacity required at all. EDIT: year of "peak electricity"
- PuffinBlue 8y ago
  This is a borderline ridiculous comment. You don't need to increase the capacity of the grid by 50% in 14 years. The legislation is to stop the sale of ICE cars, not get Harry Potter in to transmogrify all old ICE into BEV the millisecond the law is enacted. You don't even need to increase the grid at all from it's current capacity if you charge the cars overnight or outside the peak daily duck curves, probably for the first 5 years of the legislation being enacted, as the numbers of BEV's around wouldn't exceed the generating capacity. So even if we didn't change the grid or increase generating capacity in any way whatsoever just some simple time management would be enough maintain BEV's and grid stability. To be clear - you only have to make sure that the peak power draw on the grid doesn't increase. UK has about 55GW of generating capacity and uses about 25GW overnight and 35GW during the main part of the day at this time of year, a time of year that is higher use than the summer so we're talking worse case. That's 20-30GW of capacity to fit in some charging. And that's without having any increases over the next 14 years which is obviously ridiculous!

skgoa 8y ago

Currently all BEVs charge at their maximum rate the moment they are connected to the charger. Which almost always happens in late afternoon or early evening. I.e. the exact time when the energy usage is at a peak already. While there are many ideas regarding how this load can be pushed into the dead of night, nothing concrete has even been proposed, yet. So I wouldn't dismiss this issue that quickly, especially when we are talking about a (theoretical) rapid adoption of BEVs.

mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
Ummm, a timer to allow charging at certain time only? Seems pretty simple to me.
- skgoa 8y ago
  A simple timer isn't enough. You would want the chargers to be networked, so that the power company can optimize the load. That's not impossible, but it also doesn't exist, yet.
  - robjan 8y ago
    The UK power grid (which this article is talking about) is being converted to a smart grid. All new electric meters report their usage continuously which can be used to discover usage patterns. I imagine that chargers would also be connected to smart meters.
    - makomk 8y ago
      As it currently stands, most of the installed base of smart meters can't even communicate to electricity companies other than the one that originally installed them, so I'd say that's a long way off.
davidgould 8y ago
> Currently all BEVs charge at their maximum rate the moment they are connected to the charger. This is not remotely close to true. Most BEVs have timed and/or location aware charging. My own Spark EV for example (a very low end BEV) can be scheduled to charge during certain hours each day of the week. I use this because our electric utility has lower rates from 11PM until 7AM. So no matter when I plug it, the car waits for the cheap electric rate period.
- skgoa 8y ago
  "Can" and "does" are not the same, though.
  - davidgould 8y ago
    Well, mine both can and does because the utility makes it worth while. Your original claim was "all". Generally this problem is easily solved by adjusting pricing to encourage the desired charge times. Certainly there may be a few holdouts who don't take advantage, but a few is not a problem.
PuffinBlue 8y ago
> Currently all BEVs charge at their maximum rate the moment they are connected to the charger. Which almost always happens in late afternoon or early evening. I.e. the exact time when the energy usage is at a peak already. Citation needed. What is actually true is that all BEV apart from (I think) the Renault Twizzy have charge timers built into the car. There are already financial incentives to charge overnight with specific EV tariffs and some electricity suppliers will do the charger installation that talks directly to the provider via smart meter tech to charge at the best rate cost wise and grid wise. Equally, people don't just come home every single day and recharge thair car. I know this directly as my last neighbour has a Nissan Leaf and charged it every 4 or 5 days and did so overnight.

ChrisRR 8y ago

Increase the capacity of the entire grid in only 14 years? 50% is one hell of an increase!

clort 8y ago
The 50% increase is not required immediately. Only new cars would be required to be electric. Modern car longevity is about 10-20 years (Wikipedia suggests 200,000 miles in the USA) so full capacity might not be needed for 20-30 years.
Tade0 8y ago
Less than 3% each year. Also electricity consumption in the UK has fallen 18.5% since its peak in 2005, so a good part of the capacity is already there. Given that has been consistently falling at a rate of 1.5%/yr there may not be any new capacity required at all. EDIT: year of "peak electricity"
PuffinBlue 8y ago
This is a borderline ridiculous comment. You don't need to increase the capacity of the grid by 50% in 14 years. The legislation is to stop the sale of ICE cars, not get Harry Potter in to transmogrify all old ICE into BEV the millisecond the law is enacted. You don't even need to increase the grid at all from it's current capacity if you charge the cars overnight or outside the peak daily duck curves, probably for the first 5 years of the legislation being enacted, as the numbers of BEV's around wouldn't exceed the generating capacity. So even if we didn't change the grid or increase generating capacity in any way whatsoever just some simple time management would be enough maintain BEV's and grid stability. To be clear - you only have to make sure that the peak power draw on the grid doesn't increase. UK has about 55GW of generating capacity and uses about 25GW overnight and 35GW during the main part of the day at this time of year, a time of year that is higher use than the summer so we're talking worse case. That's 20-30GW of capacity to fit in some charging. And that's without having any increases over the next 14 years which is obviously ridiculous!