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"[...] the language has maintained the structure of medieval Spanish and sounds more similar to some forms of Latin American Spanish than European Spanish" I'v
by dgut 8y ago
"[...] the language has maintained the structure of medieval Spanish and sounds more similar to some forms of Latin American Spanish than European Spanish"
I've read some Ladino and the only immediately apparent difference is the spelling and a few foreign words that have entered the language. They don't speak in formal polite form (as opposed to Latin American speakers of Spanish), so in that regard, it's closer to Castilian Spanish.
- asveikau 8y agoYou might think reading it is enough, but last I looked into this there were some phonetic changes in both Spain and Latin America that Ladino never got. For example, what happens to orthographic G before I or E? I think Ladino has [ʒ] there. Does the orthographic X become [x] or is it [ʃ]? eg. How would they say Quixote, with a "sh" sound? Many years ago I found some recordings on the internet and I think it had both of these "old" features. And maybe some new ones, there was something funky going on with nasal consonants, eg. "muestro" for "nuestro".
- mixmastamyk 8y ago> Does the orthographic X become [x] or is it [ʃ]? eg. How would they say Quixote, with a "sh" sound? Interesting, I once came across the original spelling of Mexico: Mejico. In Brazil today they call it "Meshy-ko." Similarly in English, many of features that the British like to look down their noses as "Americanisms" were invented in Britain.
- asveikau 8y agoYeah, this is a puzzling thing to me. The Spaniards came in and they wrote down a bunch of native Mexican place names with X being a sh sound, as it is today in other Iberian languages like Portuguese. Then that sound morphed in Spain into the kh sound, like in loch. In IPA-speak that is /ʃ/ to /x/. But they brought that sound change to the Americas too. So, both sides of the ocean see that change... But not Ladino elsewhere in Europe, much closer to Spain as the crow flies. Another similar story I heard about English is non-rhotacism in the northeastern US. The British took north america pronouncing all the Rs. Then they dropped some. Then some northeastern cities did too. At least, this was the simplistic version I heard.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- WorldMaker 8y agoRegarding that last bit, it's part of why the Original Pronunciation [1] attempts at Shakespeare are so fascinating. Modern cinema has gotten us so used to hearing Shakespeare pronounced with the contemporary non-rhotic British accents, but to my ears listening to OP versions sounds much closer to contemporary American accents. (Though it is certainly not an American accent either.) (Another favorite part of the OP works is the discovery of "lost" puns and dirty jokes due to pronunciation shifts.) Similarly related, there's the interesting belief/possibility that a time travelling Elizabethan-era speaker of English would feel more kinship to the sometimes maligned contemporary US Southern accent than most other contemporary English accents. [1] http://originalpronunciation.com/ http://originalpronunciation.com/
- mixmastamyk 8y ago> So, both sides of the ocean see that change... But not Ladino elsewhere in Europe, much closer to Spain as the crow flies. Guessing it was one of constant contact, the Spanish were active sailing back and forth busy looting the Americas, while the Bosnians had lost contact. In the old days, sailing was probably much more efficient than horseback across a mountainous continent. Why didn't they sail over to Croatia? Not sure, perhaps Ladinos weren't active at the coast? Also, religion probably divided them from most Spanish.
- harperlee 8y agoFor what is worth (at least according to my high school teacher) the official pronunciation of x is still /j/; /ks/ is for loan words (extranjerismos and barbarismos).
- petecox 8y agoUsted(es) is a more modern invention. Ladino does have vos, which survives in some varieties, e.g. Argentine.
- maximente 8y agoyep - they also use vosotros for the plural formal, which might throw off someone just reading the text lacking that knowledge. yeísmo is also present, which is at present just about absent in Spain, except perhaps from the older speakers in the south.
- wprapido 8y agoYeismo is very much alive in Argentina and Uruguay
- poisonarena 8y agoWe use 'vos' and 'usted' more than 'tu' in Colombia, even with my girlfriend back and forth
- biglenny 8y agowow, no need to brag