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Living in the UK, I've come to believe that gov.uk is the model that all governments should follow. No matter what I need to do, gov.uk has all the information

Living in the UK, I've come to believe that gov.uk is the model that all governments should follow. No matter what I need to do, gov.uk has all the information I could need, and tells me where to go and what to do. Their greatest success isn't the website, although it is incredibly clean and easy to use. Their greatest success is distilling bureaucracy down to easy-to-follow instructions - as highlighted in this article. Their content is impeccable. Lists, bullet points, jargon-free "here's what you need to do", for any issue you might have in your life.

rad_gruchalski 8y ago
Having luved in the UK for 6 years and now in Germany, I agree with you.
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
The Plain English Campaign with their Crystal Mark accreditation deserves much credit here too. They've been successfully removing jargon and 200 word convoluted sentences from business and governments since the 70s. gov.uk is a fine continuation of that tradition.
- adw 8y ago
  The global financial crisis has a lot to do with it. A ton of the best talent in London were at startups and design agencies which went under; a lot of them went to the Government and did a really rigorous job; even though they've now moved on, the culture they put in place was bulletproof.
  - jasoncartwright 8y ago
    Yes, in recent years many top GDS employees have left[0]. Most common past 'companies' for GDS employees on LinkedIn are Department for Work and Pensions, Cabinet Office, Ministry of Justice & Home Office[1]. All the people I know of there used to work at the BBC. [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38320072 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38320072 [1] https://imgur.com/a/Gvk1EBV https://imgur.com/a/Gvk1EBV
- ElBarto 8y ago
  I'm more measured on this. The "plain English campaign" often boils down to dumbing down copy and removing all words that a 12 year old might not know. There are many terms, especially legal terms, which have a precise meaning and which are used for a reason. Teach vocabulary and good English in schools!
  - marsRoverDev 8y ago
    In most cases, it is possible to convey the same information in a concise manner to the average person. Just like with math, I get the impression that sometimes the level of jargon/legalese used is an attempt to differentiate oneself from the everyday person. The same information could theoretically be put forward in a way which is understandable to all, not just those with a degree.
    - ElBarto 8y ago
      It's difficult to convey the same information. From experience, the information provided on gov.uk can be incorrect because it is simplified too much. Very important aspects are lost and it becomes misleading. As the saying goes, simplify as much as possible, but not more.
      - afarrell 8y ago
        > but not more Where there is essential complexity, explain the complexity clearly and skillfully. The book Style: Towards Clarity and Grace is a good instruction manual, especially for those who have read Strunk & White
        zimpenfish 8y ago
        Although note that there's a non-zero number of professional linguists and grammarians seem to consider Strunk & White to be prescriptivist nonsense that you're better off ignoring.
        8y ago
buboard 8y ago
The first Government As a Service?
frutiger 8y ago
As a UK citizen living abroad, there are still some things that are not possible for me to do via hmrc.gov.uk, and still requires paper forms or passcodes to be posted to me (which can take weeks).
pertymcpert 8y ago
Except when you need to log in. Email doesn't work, have to remember a government gateway ID that everyone forgets because they use it once a year.
- groundCode 8y ago
  To be fair, government gateway isn’t actually developed or maintained by GDS (the organisation responsible for GOV.UK)
- crottypeter 8y ago
  Psst...put it in your password manager.
- londons_explore 8y ago
  Now that all UK passport holders have NFC passports, they should just say 'touch your passport to the back of your phone to log in'. The passports support challenge-response auth, allowing gov.uk to securely identify the passport in a way a device cannot spoof, and the Web NFC API is implemented quite widely now.
zhte415 8y ago
Not living in the UK but being a UK citizen, I agree. If I need a form, I can find it and associated guidance quickly. The equivalent on my corporate intranet means navigating multiple intranet sites and conflicting guidance. What would be nice for a next-step for gov.uk is removing the paper forms entirely for fully electronic filing 'self service' for everything. I understand that takes time.
open-source-ux 8y ago
The NHS (National Health Service) website has had a recent update to their homepage and follows a similar style to gov.uk: https://www.nhs.uk/ https://www.nhs.uk/ Here what the old homepage looked like: https://imgur.com/a/Xi1ZHYN https://imgur.com/a/Xi1ZHYN
- ollybee 8y ago
  They recently published a style guide and it is excellent https://beta.nhs.uk/service-manual/ https://beta.nhs.uk/service-manual/
- philo23 8y ago
  Hadn't noticed this redesign, looks like they've done a really good job. I wonder if it's just been inspired by GOV.UK or if the same group of people (or just some of them) have been involved. Either way seems like they've made a real improvement.
macca321 8y ago
Theres a problem I've found where you can't be sure if bullets are AND conditions or OR conditions. E.g. in https://www.gov.uk/30-hours-free-childcare?step-by-step-nav=f517cd57-3c18-4bb9-aa8b-1b907e279bf9 https://www.gov.uk/30-hours-free-childcare?step-by-step-nav=... the eligibility section the first section of bullets is AND and the second is OR. It's easy enough on this page, but when you are looking at tax rules it can be hard to tell.

rad_gruchalski 8y ago

Having luved in the UK for 6 years and now in Germany, I agree with you.

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

The Plain English Campaign with their Crystal Mark accreditation deserves much credit here too. They've been successfully removing jargon and 200 word convoluted sentences from business and governments since the 70s. gov.uk is a fine continuation of that tradition.

adw 8y ago
The global financial crisis has a lot to do with it. A ton of the best talent in London were at startups and design agencies which went under; a lot of them went to the Government and did a really rigorous job; even though they've now moved on, the culture they put in place was bulletproof.
- jasoncartwright 8y ago
  Yes, in recent years many top GDS employees have left[0]. Most common past 'companies' for GDS employees on LinkedIn are Department for Work and Pensions, Cabinet Office, Ministry of Justice & Home Office[1]. All the people I know of there used to work at the BBC. [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38320072 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38320072 [1] https://imgur.com/a/Gvk1EBV https://imgur.com/a/Gvk1EBV
ElBarto 8y ago
I'm more measured on this. The "plain English campaign" often boils down to dumbing down copy and removing all words that a 12 year old might not know. There are many terms, especially legal terms, which have a precise meaning and which are used for a reason. Teach vocabulary and good English in schools!
- marsRoverDev 8y ago
  In most cases, it is possible to convey the same information in a concise manner to the average person. Just like with math, I get the impression that sometimes the level of jargon/legalese used is an attempt to differentiate oneself from the everyday person. The same information could theoretically be put forward in a way which is understandable to all, not just those with a degree.
  - ElBarto 8y ago
    It's difficult to convey the same information. From experience, the information provided on gov.uk can be incorrect because it is simplified too much. Very important aspects are lost and it becomes misleading. As the saying goes, simplify as much as possible, but not more.
    - afarrell 8y ago
      > but not more Where there is essential complexity, explain the complexity clearly and skillfully. The book Style: Towards Clarity and Grace is a good instruction manual, especially for those who have read Strunk & White
      - zimpenfish 8y ago
        Although note that there's a non-zero number of professional linguists and grammarians seem to consider Strunk & White to be prescriptivist nonsense that you're better off ignoring.
        8y ago

buboard 8y ago

The first Government As a Service?

frutiger 8y ago

As a UK citizen living abroad, there are still some things that are not possible for me to do via hmrc.gov.uk, and still requires paper forms or passcodes to be posted to me (which can take weeks).

pertymcpert 8y ago

Except when you need to log in. Email doesn't work, have to remember a government gateway ID that everyone forgets because they use it once a year.

groundCode 8y ago
To be fair, government gateway isn’t actually developed or maintained by GDS (the organisation responsible for GOV.UK)
crottypeter 8y ago
Psst...put it in your password manager.
londons_explore 8y ago
Now that all UK passport holders have NFC passports, they should just say 'touch your passport to the back of your phone to log in'. The passports support challenge-response auth, allowing gov.uk to securely identify the passport in a way a device cannot spoof, and the Web NFC API is implemented quite widely now.

zhte415 8y ago

Not living in the UK but being a UK citizen, I agree. If I need a form, I can find it and associated guidance quickly. The equivalent on my corporate intranet means navigating multiple intranet sites and conflicting guidance. What would be nice for a next-step for gov.uk is removing the paper forms entirely for fully electronic filing 'self service' for everything. I understand that takes time.

open-source-ux 8y ago

The NHS (National Health Service) website has had a recent update to their homepage and follows a similar style to gov.uk: https://www.nhs.uk/ https://www.nhs.uk/ Here what the old homepage looked like: https://imgur.com/a/Xi1ZHYN https://imgur.com/a/Xi1ZHYN

ollybee 8y ago
They recently published a style guide and it is excellent https://beta.nhs.uk/service-manual/ https://beta.nhs.uk/service-manual/
philo23 8y ago
Hadn't noticed this redesign, looks like they've done a really good job. I wonder if it's just been inspired by GOV.UK or if the same group of people (or just some of them) have been involved. Either way seems like they've made a real improvement.

macca321 8y ago

Theres a problem I've found where you can't be sure if bullets are AND conditions or OR conditions. E.g. in https://www.gov.uk/30-hours-free-childcare?step-by-step-nav=f517cd57-3c18-4bb9-aa8b-1b907e279bf9 https://www.gov.uk/30-hours-free-childcare?step-by-step-nav=... the eligibility section the first section of bullets is AND and the second is OR. It's easy enough on this page, but when you are looking at tax rules it can be hard to tell.