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I absolutely feel the same way and was thinking about this when I read the comments. Its like we have become old and disenchanted. We no longer see the the posi

I absolutely feel the same way and was thinking about this when I read the comments. Its like we have become old and disenchanted. We no longer see the the positive potential of an underlying piece of technology(or even the technology itself) but see ways to further exploit us.

dylan604 8y ago
Somebody has to though. If we just blindly accept things, then we end up in a nightmare we have with unsecure IoT devices. It should be accepted that if something can be exploited, it will be exploited. As developers, we shouldn't be blind of that.
- krapp 8y ago
  But almost no one goes any further than complaining about the modern web and javascript and the existence of "web apps." If these tangents came with constructive ideas about how to improve the situation, that would be fine. But the only suggestions people seem to offer are to abandon the web as a lost cause or break the web somehow. And heaven forbid anyone mention Webassembly without someone predicting that the entire web will inevitably be converted into closed proprietary WASM blobs and HTML will be deprecated... for reasons. It's getting unreasonable and counterproductive. I feel like if some people had their way, computing would have never advanced beyond the terminal, or at best, at the state of the art in 1990.
  - eitland 8y ago
    > If these tangents came with constructive ideas about how to improve the situation, that would be fine. But the only suggestions people seem to offer are to abandon the web as a lost cause or break the web somehow. Some of us are suggesting constructive alternatives: - test your site in all major browsers - make sure it works without JavaScript and is readble without styling. Thst is unless you are creating a frontend application. We've been complaining about this since IE6 and we had it more or less nailed for a while around web 2.0 until enough devs started thinking - it was enough to target Chrome and - JavaScript is available everywhere. There's no reason why most blogs and news sites should need JavaScript. And there is no reason why Chrome monoculture should be more acceptable than IE6 monoculture.
  - dylan604 8y ago
    Regardless of the industry, bad actors always ruin it for the rest of us. I am familiar with the saying of "don't bring me problems, bring me solutions". However, not every problem has an immediate solution, or just because I found the problem doesn't mean I understand it or even in the correct place to fix it. I would think that applies to most people finding issues and trying to report it as well. What I find counterproductive is that we know there are bad actors out there just waiting for the next thing to come out that they can exploit, yet very little is done to counter act it during development. Yes, develop the thing, but before releasing it into the wild, maybe do a little pen-testing on it before releasing the next delivery device for the whatever ill will someone might use it for. Plus, this is Hacker News where part of the group are the ones cracking things open to see what's under the hood while another part of the group are the ones building the next "thing". Keeping these kinds of articles front of mind might actually make one of these devs actually think about adding some extra security.

dylan604 8y ago

Somebody has to though. If we just blindly accept things, then we end up in a nightmare we have with unsecure IoT devices. It should be accepted that if something can be exploited, it will be exploited. As developers, we shouldn't be blind of that.

krapp 8y ago
But almost no one goes any further than complaining about the modern web and javascript and the existence of "web apps." If these tangents came with constructive ideas about how to improve the situation, that would be fine. But the only suggestions people seem to offer are to abandon the web as a lost cause or break the web somehow. And heaven forbid anyone mention Webassembly without someone predicting that the entire web will inevitably be converted into closed proprietary WASM blobs and HTML will be deprecated... for reasons. It's getting unreasonable and counterproductive. I feel like if some people had their way, computing would have never advanced beyond the terminal, or at best, at the state of the art in 1990.
- eitland 8y ago
  > If these tangents came with constructive ideas about how to improve the situation, that would be fine. But the only suggestions people seem to offer are to abandon the web as a lost cause or break the web somehow. Some of us are suggesting constructive alternatives: - test your site in all major browsers - make sure it works without JavaScript and is readble without styling. Thst is unless you are creating a frontend application. We've been complaining about this since IE6 and we had it more or less nailed for a while around web 2.0 until enough devs started thinking - it was enough to target Chrome and - JavaScript is available everywhere. There's no reason why most blogs and news sites should need JavaScript. And there is no reason why Chrome monoculture should be more acceptable than IE6 monoculture.
- dylan604 8y ago
  Regardless of the industry, bad actors always ruin it for the rest of us. I am familiar with the saying of "don't bring me problems, bring me solutions". However, not every problem has an immediate solution, or just because I found the problem doesn't mean I understand it or even in the correct place to fix it. I would think that applies to most people finding issues and trying to report it as well. What I find counterproductive is that we know there are bad actors out there just waiting for the next thing to come out that they can exploit, yet very little is done to counter act it during development. Yes, develop the thing, but before releasing it into the wild, maybe do a little pen-testing on it before releasing the next delivery device for the whatever ill will someone might use it for. Plus, this is Hacker News where part of the group are the ones cracking things open to see what's under the hood while another part of the group are the ones building the next "thing". Keeping these kinds of articles front of mind might actually make one of these devs actually think about adding some extra security.