4 ms·

So people have been separated from their children should just wait for the American people to maaaaaaybe kick out the jackboots in two to four years? Naw, dawg

So people have been separated from their children should just wait for the American people to maaaaaaybe kick out the jackboots in two to four years? Naw, dawg, when things get ugly, you have to resist where you can. I'm guessing you can't agree, but there's a fair number of people who think we're in a Germany 1937 situation. We have a president who in all likelihood enlisted Russian interference in the election, who shares plenty of rhetorical similarity to actual fascists. We have a Congress that is moving as fast as it can to stack the judiciary, which in turn will hear future election cases. Things are getting grim. I've lived and worked in places where these processes have played out - like Hungary - and anyone who says it can't happen here is kidding themselves.

andun 8y ago
Those people were caught committing a crime. And it's not the kind of crime one could commit by mistake, they were entering a country illegally.
- mynameisvlad 8y ago
  It's not as black and white as you make it seem. Being in the country unlawfully is not a crime, it's a civil infraction. Entering unlawfully (through something other than a border) is a crime, when it happens, but the subsequent stay is once again a civil infraction. Most unlawful residents did not enter unlawfully, they overstayed on visas or in some other way went from a legal stay to an unlawful one. These people would not be committing a crime.
- Frondo 8y ago
  Interestingly, andun is a new account and seems to be a holocaust denier, based on at least one of their other comments ("purported holocaust death camps"). Engage accordingly.
  - andun 8y ago
    Shut it down!!!!
- dragontamer 8y ago
  > Those people were caught committing a crime. Speeding tickets are also people who were caught committing a crime. Regardless, it is a new policy to put Adults who cross with children (even though many of these Adults are the parents of those children) into jail. I for one, believe that there are more humane ways to treat boarder-crossers who are crossing with their family. Sure, maybe put the lone crossers into jail, but if they're coming over with kids, then I'd hope that the judges / immigration agents / etc. etc. have power to show compassion in those cases. So yeah, put some of them in jail, and put others into other forms of detention that don't necessarily involve separating kids from their parents. And yes, I recognize that Coyotes exist (professional illegal boarder crossers who specialize in trafficking children into America), so I recognize that ICE has a hard job here. But a repeat-offender like a Coyote could be caught on the 2nd or 3rd attempt. I recognize that ICE needs a plan to deal with Coyotes appropriately, and that not every adult-with-children is necessarily the parent. There's a lot of ways to deal with the problem, and its sad that the current administration thinks that separating families is the best way forward. If separations are to happen, I want it to happen only to Coyotes and the children they're smuggling. We need to be careful to keep the real parents together with their real children.
gaius 8y ago
people have been separated from their children This happens any time anyone is sent to prison for any reason, no?
- Frondo 8y ago
  Being in the country without authorization is a civil infraction, not a criminal one, and people aren't sent to prison for civil infractions. You're also allowed to be here if you're seeking asylum. But, at the end of the day, if your basis for the family border separation policy is to defend it with "well, criminals also have their families broken up," then I'm not sure how to convince you it's right to care about and have empathy for families and other human beings.
  - gaius 8y ago
    if your basis for the family border separation policy is to defend it with "well, criminals also have their families broken up," Not at all. I just find it curious that this one particular application of what is actually a common policy has suddenly become protest-worthy. By all means protest it in its entirety (if you think it’s appropriate for children to serve sentences alongside their parents in the same cells) but anything else just looks politically motivated.
    - mantas 8y ago
      It's just a byproduct of protesting against tighter migration control. God forbid law enforcement stops "undocumented".
      - nkassis 8y ago
        I does not, you can agree to tight migration enforcement while treating people who are caught by that enforcement humanly.
        mantas 8y ago
        Why nobody protests when kids are separated if parents are incarcerated in-country? What would be humane treatment? Hold kids together with parents? Same people will be outraged by putting kids behind (hypotethical) bars.

andun 8y ago

Those people were caught committing a crime. And it's not the kind of crime one could commit by mistake, they were entering a country illegally.

mynameisvlad 8y ago
It's not as black and white as you make it seem. Being in the country unlawfully is not a crime, it's a civil infraction. Entering unlawfully (through something other than a border) is a crime, when it happens, but the subsequent stay is once again a civil infraction. Most unlawful residents did not enter unlawfully, they overstayed on visas or in some other way went from a legal stay to an unlawful one. These people would not be committing a crime.
Frondo 8y ago
Interestingly, andun is a new account and seems to be a holocaust denier, based on at least one of their other comments ("purported holocaust death camps"). Engage accordingly.
- andun 8y ago
  Shut it down!!!!
dragontamer 8y ago
> Those people were caught committing a crime. Speeding tickets are also people who were caught committing a crime. Regardless, it is a new policy to put Adults who cross with children (even though many of these Adults are the parents of those children) into jail. I for one, believe that there are more humane ways to treat boarder-crossers who are crossing with their family. Sure, maybe put the lone crossers into jail, but if they're coming over with kids, then I'd hope that the judges / immigration agents / etc. etc. have power to show compassion in those cases. So yeah, put some of them in jail, and put others into other forms of detention that don't necessarily involve separating kids from their parents. And yes, I recognize that Coyotes exist (professional illegal boarder crossers who specialize in trafficking children into America), so I recognize that ICE has a hard job here. But a repeat-offender like a Coyote could be caught on the 2nd or 3rd attempt. I recognize that ICE needs a plan to deal with Coyotes appropriately, and that not every adult-with-children is necessarily the parent. There's a lot of ways to deal with the problem, and its sad that the current administration thinks that separating families is the best way forward. If separations are to happen, I want it to happen only to Coyotes and the children they're smuggling. We need to be careful to keep the real parents together with their real children.

gaius 8y ago

people have been separated from their children This happens any time anyone is sent to prison for any reason, no?

Frondo 8y ago
Being in the country without authorization is a civil infraction, not a criminal one, and people aren't sent to prison for civil infractions. You're also allowed to be here if you're seeking asylum. But, at the end of the day, if your basis for the family border separation policy is to defend it with "well, criminals also have their families broken up," then I'm not sure how to convince you it's right to care about and have empathy for families and other human beings.
- gaius 8y ago
  if your basis for the family border separation policy is to defend it with "well, criminals also have their families broken up," Not at all. I just find it curious that this one particular application of what is actually a common policy has suddenly become protest-worthy. By all means protest it in its entirety (if you think it’s appropriate for children to serve sentences alongside their parents in the same cells) but anything else just looks politically motivated.
  - mantas 8y ago
    It's just a byproduct of protesting against tighter migration control. God forbid law enforcement stops "undocumented".
    - nkassis 8y ago
      I does not, you can agree to tight migration enforcement while treating people who are caught by that enforcement humanly.
      - mantas 8y ago
        Why nobody protests when kids are separated if parents are incarcerated in-country? What would be humane treatment? Hold kids together with parents? Same people will be outraged by putting kids behind (hypotethical) bars.