7 ms·

L.A.'s Most Derided Piece of Public Art Is About to Light Up Again

138 points by extraterra 8y ago

duxup 8y ago
>Its primitive, custom-designed computer couldn’t execute Young’s intentions; the sound came out wrong, and the lights rarely synced as they should have. I'm a bit surprised by this. Most professional artists I know put a huge amount of effort into working with / experimenting with the medium they're working in get the results they want. I don't know any (i'm sure there are some) who do one off experiments, they're usually pretty experienced with the materials / medium they work with.
- soperj 8y ago
  It was built in 1975. How would they have a huge amount of experience in the medium?
  - damon_c 8y ago
    Yes and it was much more difficult to write mocks and unit tests back then!
    - addicted 8y ago
      And imagine completing a project without being able to include npm packages such as leftpad. Unthinkable.
  - duxup 8y ago
    Generally the artists I'm thinking of are experimenting with the medium on their own before using it on a finished project.
    - nervousvarun 8y ago
      1975-ish was the very beginning of PCs and was therefore difficult to even have access to a computer. Outside of specific corporate/academic/military facilities they basically would have been unable to "experiment" at all. It's pretty remarkable they came up with anything that functioned at all considering the barriers to entry of the time.
standerman 8y ago
atlasobscura.com seems to show up an awful lot on HN, and I rarely find the links to be technically relevant or useful, but always full of ads. It would be nice to be able to filter them out
- Washuu 8y ago
  Atlas Obscura is another site I ignore since it requires Javascript for images to load.
  - tracker1 8y ago
    install uBlock Origin, seems to work for me with JS enabled, though does seem to have a fullscreen nag, and a scroll nag... The WORST imho are the sites that ask for notification permission, to which my initial reaction is FUCK YOU... there's no call for that without a user initiated action.
- echelon 8y ago
  As a counter point, I love articles posted from Atlas Obscura and enjoy reading them when they pop up on HN. Not everyone is the same, and I appreciate your point of view as well.
- onion2k 8y ago
  I rarely find the links to be technically relevant or useful Reading articles like this one gives you things to talk about, which makes you someone people are more keen to engage with. That will give you an edge in a lot of interactions but particularly in sales. If you can't sell then your startup will fail. That's why they're relevant. You need to be able to talk to other people about what they are interested in. That requires broadening your interests. A few articles about things you wouldn't typically read can be very useful.
mmjaa 8y ago
Awesome! I have walked past it a few times and wondered how it was ever supposed to have worked, so its going to be wonderful to see it in action one day ..
gregable 8y ago
> Back in the 1970s, a computer used 8-bit tape, in binary code—picture a roll of paper tape with holes cut into it. This seems like quite an ambitious project for 1975!
- Someone 8y ago
  The idea to use ”a roll of paper tape with holes cut into it” to control a machine was 250 year old in 1975 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basile_Bouchon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basile_Bouchon) (It took around 80 years to get a decently working implementation)
Luc 8y ago
Pictures of the original electronics: http://eecue.com/a/1421/TriforiumControlCenter.html http://eecue.com/a/1421/TriforiumControlCenter.html
- 8_hours_ago 8y ago
  Wow! Seeing those pictures makes it obvious why they decided to add new electronics and lights instead of reusing the existing ones. Even with documentation that looks like it would be a real pain to interface with.
  - yellowapple 8y ago
    Looks like fun to me.
- Tistel 8y ago
  Oh, so sad. Its looks like so much work went into the piece's computer. I wonder if anyone has done a blender (or whatever) animation of what the goal was. I would love to see it. Why on earth would they cement the wire in? bizarre. Put in a hollow tube so you can pull new wires in. That can't be a new idea. Still, great story.
- sizzle 8y ago
  How many raspberry pi's would it approximately take to replace all these older electronics? I've seen an impressive LED matrix controlled by one raspberry pi, strobed to music and displayed low resolution images and videos. Thoughts?
  - simias 8y ago
    A rpi + the driving circuits for the diodes would do the trick just fine. Actually a rpi might arguably be overpowered for such a task. This monument was inaugurated 6 years after Apollo 11, it's basically prehistorical as far as electronics are concerned.
kibwen 8y ago
> Given the decay of time and the risk of turning it on, the team is using custom-built LED triangles that sit atop each hand-blown glass prism to light it up. I think they've inadvertently created an interesting new dimension to the artwork here. Software developers especially should be able to appreciate the feeling of being unable to properly reengineer a flawed system due to expense or expedience, and just slapping another layer on top instead. Sort of like a celebration of path dependence. I'd like to see more examples of long-form artworks that gradually evolve through different artists and eras.
- sandworm101 8y ago
  >> I'd like to see more examples of long-form artworks that gradually evolve through different artists and eras. Much of this is actually illegal in many counties. Re-working a sculpture is seen as trampeling on the artists rights, specifically "moral rights" which cannot be contracted away. The classic example case of this is Snow v. Eaton Center. "In Snow, a 1982 case at the Ontario High Court of Justice, the defendant had purchased a sculpture of 60 geese that they placed inside their shopping centre. During their Christmas celebration the defendant tried to attach ribbons to the necks of the geese. The plaintiff alleged that the addition of the ribbons modified his work in a manner prejudicial to his honour or reputation."
  - LeifCarrotson 8y ago
    Litigating this seems like a pretty quick way to kill future sales of your artwork...
    - sandworm101 8y ago
      You can't. Artists cannot divest themselves of future moral rights via contract. If you want to change a work, you have to go back to the artist each and every time. If artists could simply lift them, moral rights would be just another thing waived in every sale. But moral rights are not copyrights. They cannot be used to prevent future sales (ie first sale doctrine).
drcode 8y ago
Hmm... surely, the Hollywood sign would win any contest of "L.A.'s most derided piece of public art"?
- simias 8y ago
  >to deride: to speak of or treat with contempt, mockery, or ridicule; scoff or jeer at Is the Hollywood sign really the target of that much mockery? Caricature surely but that's not the same thing.
  - duskwuff 8y ago
    It's easily the best-known piece of public art in the city, so there's naturally going to be more mockery of it than other, lesser-known pieces.
  - mortenjorck 8y ago
    The Hollywood sign wasn’t always considered an icon. For many years between its initial construction in the 1920s and its restoration in the 1970s, it was poorly maintained and considered an eyesore: https://theconversation.com/the-history-of-the-hollywood-sign-from-public-nuisance-to-symbol-of-stardom-78584 https://theconversation.com/the-history-of-the-hollywood-sig...
- psetq 8y ago
  How so? I'd consider the Hollywood sign to be an iconic American landmark and haven't really heard much to the contrary.
  - williamdclt 8y ago
    A lot of people do consider it an iconic American landmark, but don't necessarily see it as a good thing. In this particular case, for me the first things Hollywood sign evokes are "megalomania", "shitty blockbusters", "overinflated ego". I'm super biased (I don't even really know Hollywood history) and it doesn't necessarily make it the "most derided piece of art", but it wouldn't surprise me
rossdavidh 8y ago
"Hey, there's this new piece of technology, I think it will enable great things! Let's start off with a really big budget, very public project, first thing!" Ouch. Not that the software developer community has any room to talk.
krrrh 8y ago
It may also be of interest to HN that Jona Bechtolt & Claire Evans who are leading this project are the core members of the band Yacht. Claire recently published Broad Band [1] to acclaim, which explores the history of women involved in the early years of the internet. She also edits Vice’s science fiction site. Both are very cool people who continuously crank out interesting projects. [1] https://clairelevans.com https://clairelevans.com
- kepano 8y ago
  Here’s a podcast in which I discuss with them this and their other fascinating projects https://blog.lumi.com/wellmade/26-claire-evans-jona-bechtolt https://blog.lumi.com/wellmade/26-claire-evans-jona-bechtolt
rconti 8y ago
What's the risk of turning it on? A short, inside of .. the concrete?
- setr 8y ago
  probably the biggest risk is it simply failing which would make the whole restoration thing completely pointless, and subject to even more mockery
- accrual 8y ago
  I wonder if the estimated multimillion restoration cost includes rewiring the structure. Perhaps the existing wiring just isn't suitable for use at all.
nsxwolf 8y ago
Oh, people don't like that? I always thought it was neat.
Angostura 8y ago
Sadly the artist died in 2007.
daodedickinson 8y ago
Walt Disney Concert Hall is more derided. Maybe that would be "architecture", which counts as "public art" for me, but perhaps not thee. Some would also name Ramón C. Cortines School of Visual and Performing Arts, but I like that one.
kens 8y ago
Anyone know what computer the Triforium used originally? I searched around but couldn't find details.
Tistel 8y ago
Its amazing that this was just 43 years ago. Thats nothing in the grande scheme of things.

138 points by extraterra 8y ago

>Its primitive, custom-designed computer couldn’t execute Young’s intentions; the sound came out wrong, and the lights rarely synced as they should have. I'm a bit surprised by this. Most professional artists I know put a huge amount of effort into working with / experimenting with the medium they're working in get the results they want. I don't know any (i'm sure there are some) who do one off experiments, they're usually pretty experienced with the materials / medium they work with.

soperj 8y ago
It was built in 1975. How would they have a huge amount of experience in the medium?
- damon_c 8y ago
  Yes and it was much more difficult to write mocks and unit tests back then!
  - addicted 8y ago
    And imagine completing a project without being able to include npm packages such as leftpad. Unthinkable.
- duxup 8y ago
  Generally the artists I'm thinking of are experimenting with the medium on their own before using it on a finished project.
  - nervousvarun 8y ago
    1975-ish was the very beginning of PCs and was therefore difficult to even have access to a computer. Outside of specific corporate/academic/military facilities they basically would have been unable to "experiment" at all. It's pretty remarkable they came up with anything that functioned at all considering the barriers to entry of the time.

standerman 8y ago

atlasobscura.com seems to show up an awful lot on HN, and I rarely find the links to be technically relevant or useful, but always full of ads. It would be nice to be able to filter them out

Washuu 8y ago
Atlas Obscura is another site I ignore since it requires Javascript for images to load.
- tracker1 8y ago
  install uBlock Origin, seems to work for me with JS enabled, though does seem to have a fullscreen nag, and a scroll nag... The WORST imho are the sites that ask for notification permission, to which my initial reaction is FUCK YOU... there's no call for that without a user initiated action.
echelon 8y ago
As a counter point, I love articles posted from Atlas Obscura and enjoy reading them when they pop up on HN. Not everyone is the same, and I appreciate your point of view as well.
onion2k 8y ago
I rarely find the links to be technically relevant or useful Reading articles like this one gives you things to talk about, which makes you someone people are more keen to engage with. That will give you an edge in a lot of interactions but particularly in sales. If you can't sell then your startup will fail. That's why they're relevant. You need to be able to talk to other people about what they are interested in. That requires broadening your interests. A few articles about things you wouldn't typically read can be very useful.

mmjaa 8y ago

Awesome! I have walked past it a few times and wondered how it was ever supposed to have worked, so its going to be wonderful to see it in action one day ..

gregable 8y ago

> Back in the 1970s, a computer used 8-bit tape, in binary code—picture a roll of paper tape with holes cut into it. This seems like quite an ambitious project for 1975!

Someone 8y ago
The idea to use ”a roll of paper tape with holes cut into it” to control a machine was 250 year old in 1975 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basile_Bouchon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basile_Bouchon) (It took around 80 years to get a decently working implementation)

Luc 8y ago

Pictures of the original electronics: http://eecue.com/a/1421/TriforiumControlCenter.html http://eecue.com/a/1421/TriforiumControlCenter.html

8_hours_ago 8y ago
Wow! Seeing those pictures makes it obvious why they decided to add new electronics and lights instead of reusing the existing ones. Even with documentation that looks like it would be a real pain to interface with.
- yellowapple 8y ago
  Looks like fun to me.
Tistel 8y ago
Oh, so sad. Its looks like so much work went into the piece's computer. I wonder if anyone has done a blender (or whatever) animation of what the goal was. I would love to see it. Why on earth would they cement the wire in? bizarre. Put in a hollow tube so you can pull new wires in. That can't be a new idea. Still, great story.
sizzle 8y ago
How many raspberry pi's would it approximately take to replace all these older electronics? I've seen an impressive LED matrix controlled by one raspberry pi, strobed to music and displayed low resolution images and videos. Thoughts?
- simias 8y ago
  A rpi + the driving circuits for the diodes would do the trick just fine. Actually a rpi might arguably be overpowered for such a task. This monument was inaugurated 6 years after Apollo 11, it's basically prehistorical as far as electronics are concerned.

kibwen 8y ago

> Given the decay of time and the risk of turning it on, the team is using custom-built LED triangles that sit atop each hand-blown glass prism to light it up. I think they've inadvertently created an interesting new dimension to the artwork here. Software developers especially should be able to appreciate the feeling of being unable to properly reengineer a flawed system due to expense or expedience, and just slapping another layer on top instead. Sort of like a celebration of path dependence. I'd like to see more examples of long-form artworks that gradually evolve through different artists and eras.

sandworm101 8y ago
>> I'd like to see more examples of long-form artworks that gradually evolve through different artists and eras. Much of this is actually illegal in many counties. Re-working a sculpture is seen as trampeling on the artists rights, specifically "moral rights" which cannot be contracted away. The classic example case of this is Snow v. Eaton Center. "In Snow, a 1982 case at the Ontario High Court of Justice, the defendant had purchased a sculpture of 60 geese that they placed inside their shopping centre. During their Christmas celebration the defendant tried to attach ribbons to the necks of the geese. The plaintiff alleged that the addition of the ribbons modified his work in a manner prejudicial to his honour or reputation."
- LeifCarrotson 8y ago
  Litigating this seems like a pretty quick way to kill future sales of your artwork...
  - sandworm101 8y ago
    You can't. Artists cannot divest themselves of future moral rights via contract. If you want to change a work, you have to go back to the artist each and every time. If artists could simply lift them, moral rights would be just another thing waived in every sale. But moral rights are not copyrights. They cannot be used to prevent future sales (ie first sale doctrine).

drcode 8y ago

Hmm... surely, the Hollywood sign would win any contest of "L.A.'s most derided piece of public art"?

simias 8y ago
>to deride: to speak of or treat with contempt, mockery, or ridicule; scoff or jeer at Is the Hollywood sign really the target of that much mockery? Caricature surely but that's not the same thing.
- duskwuff 8y ago
  It's easily the best-known piece of public art in the city, so there's naturally going to be more mockery of it than other, lesser-known pieces.
- mortenjorck 8y ago
  The Hollywood sign wasn’t always considered an icon. For many years between its initial construction in the 1920s and its restoration in the 1970s, it was poorly maintained and considered an eyesore: https://theconversation.com/the-history-of-the-hollywood-sign-from-public-nuisance-to-symbol-of-stardom-78584 https://theconversation.com/the-history-of-the-hollywood-sig...
psetq 8y ago
How so? I'd consider the Hollywood sign to be an iconic American landmark and haven't really heard much to the contrary.
- williamdclt 8y ago
  A lot of people do consider it an iconic American landmark, but don't necessarily see it as a good thing. In this particular case, for me the first things Hollywood sign evokes are "megalomania", "shitty blockbusters", "overinflated ego". I'm super biased (I don't even really know Hollywood history) and it doesn't necessarily make it the "most derided piece of art", but it wouldn't surprise me

rossdavidh 8y ago

"Hey, there's this new piece of technology, I think it will enable great things! Let's start off with a really big budget, very public project, first thing!" Ouch. Not that the software developer community has any room to talk.

krrrh 8y ago

It may also be of interest to HN that Jona Bechtolt & Claire Evans who are leading this project are the core members of the band Yacht. Claire recently published Broad Band [1] to acclaim, which explores the history of women involved in the early years of the internet. She also edits Vice’s science fiction site. Both are very cool people who continuously crank out interesting projects. [1] https://clairelevans.com https://clairelevans.com

kepano 8y ago
Here’s a podcast in which I discuss with them this and their other fascinating projects https://blog.lumi.com/wellmade/26-claire-evans-jona-bechtolt https://blog.lumi.com/wellmade/26-claire-evans-jona-bechtolt

rconti 8y ago

What's the risk of turning it on? A short, inside of .. the concrete?

setr 8y ago
probably the biggest risk is it simply failing which would make the whole restoration thing completely pointless, and subject to even more mockery
accrual 8y ago
I wonder if the estimated multimillion restoration cost includes rewiring the structure. Perhaps the existing wiring just isn't suitable for use at all.

nsxwolf 8y ago

Oh, people don't like that? I always thought it was neat.

Angostura 8y ago

Sadly the artist died in 2007.

daodedickinson 8y ago

Walt Disney Concert Hall is more derided. Maybe that would be "architecture", which counts as "public art" for me, but perhaps not thee. Some would also name Ramón C. Cortines School of Visual and Performing Arts, but I like that one.

kens 8y ago

Anyone know what computer the Triforium used originally? I searched around but couldn't find details.

Tistel 8y ago

Its amazing that this was just 43 years ago. Thats nothing in the grande scheme of things.