5 ms·

Outside of very special industries and knowledge you can blatantly ignore non competes without consequence. They are basically unenforceable for most circumstan

Outside of very special industries and knowledge you can blatantly ignore non competes without consequence. They are basically unenforceable for most circumstances and no attempt will be made.

hellogoodbyeeee 8y ago
I'm not a lawyer, but I think this highly depends on the state you are in. From my googling, judges in my Midwestern state are very reluctant to strike down any kind of contract made between two adults.
- paulie_a 8y ago
  I live in the Midwest and have dealt with a couple non-competes. They are toothless if you simply take a strong stance from the get go. No lawyer required.
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    > They are toothless if you simply take a strong stance from the get go. By "get go" do you mean time of signing or when you're leaving? And if the latter, what does that look like at the time you're leaving?
    - paulie_a 8y ago
      Leaving, I've been threatened about legal action and basically said I didn't care, swore a few times and moved on. They won't spend the money to enforce it. Most noncompetes I've seen were written so terribly they wouldn't have a leg to stand on anyways.
      - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
        Yeah, that really requires calling their bluff. Ideally it's a bluff.
        paulie_a 8y ago
        It works. Non-comepetes are basically unenforceable regardless of state. They are just used to threaten and bluff. Telling them to fuck off shows you know they have no standing.
        SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
        > basically unenforceable That's different than "totally". It's harder for a janitor, who might not have the means to fight back, to try and call that bluff.
        davidmr 8y ago
        Even by the standard of what passes for legal advice on the internet, this is especially terrible advice. I also live in the Midwest and am currently sitting out a noncompete agreement (which, since it must be paid to be enforceable in my state, has been quite enjoyable). Like you, I’m also not a lawyer, but I did engage the services of a firm when I left. My lawyer informed me in no uncertain terms that my noncompete agreement was enforceable and cited several cases where a) their firm took employers to court to have the agreements tossed and lost and b) unsuccessfully defended people who did what you did and were sued by their previous employer. In general, “fuck off, sue me” usually isn’t a great legal strategy.
      - s73v3r_ 8y ago
        Problem with that advice is you have to believe they won't do anything, and know that these things are garbage when you decide to start looking for another job. If you don't know that these are garbage, or think that they will try and enforce it, then you're probably going to be dissuaded from looking for other work in the first place.
  - obmelvin 8y ago
    There are many states in the Midwest and they have different laws
lawnchair_larry 8y ago
Not true, depends on the state. Californians tend to assume this is universal, but other states do uphold them.
- stale2002 8y ago
  Whether or not other states "uphold" them is missing the point. The point is that is is quite easy to get a job, and just not tell your previous employer. And they don't want to waste time paying a lawyer, either. You'll almost certainly get away with it, regardless of what your contract did or did not say.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    For the janitor, sure. And, yes, non-competes are beyond ridiculous for janitors, fast-food workers, and the like. For senior people? It's actually a pretty small industry. If an employer actually cares, they can find out pretty quickly where an ex-employee has landed especially if they're in a visible externally-facing role. As you say, under most circumstances most companies don't actually care even if they have some boilerplate non-compete clause. But some do, especially in places where close client relationships are important or where it's a senior person moving to a direct competitor.
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    At the same time, someone who signs it might not know any of that. In that case, the contract does become "valid", because no one is going to challenge the validity of it. You and I might know these clauses are unenforceable garbage, and we might be able to get a lawyer to send a nasty letter to the former company if they attempt to use it. However, that situation is not common for everyone, and unfortunately the most vulnerable in our society are the ones who get punished because of it.
- kurtisc 8y ago
  And Americans tend to assume you have a state...
  - deleted 8y ago
adrr 8y ago
Janitors can't afford lawyers. Access to legal aid is the biggest determinant of whether a contract is enforceable or not from a functional standpoint.
- revel 8y ago
  Also, what are you going to do if you're forced into an arbitration court? Your chances of winning in that environment are zero, even with competent legal representation.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  The profit margin hiring janitors is thin enough that it's not worth it for anyone who's hiring to take the risk on someone who lists as prior experience a company that is known to make it's employees sign a non-compete. It's not the employees who's actions are influenced. It's their potential other employers' actions that are influenced.

Outside of very special industries and knowledge you can blatantly ignore non competes without consequence. They are basically unenforceable for most circumstances and no attempt will be made.

hellogoodbyeeee 8y ago

I'm not a lawyer, but I think this highly depends on the state you are in. From my googling, judges in my Midwestern state are very reluctant to strike down any kind of contract made between two adults.

paulie_a 8y ago
I live in the Midwest and have dealt with a couple non-competes. They are toothless if you simply take a strong stance from the get go. No lawyer required.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  > They are toothless if you simply take a strong stance from the get go. By "get go" do you mean time of signing or when you're leaving? And if the latter, what does that look like at the time you're leaving?
  - paulie_a 8y ago
    Leaving, I've been threatened about legal action and basically said I didn't care, swore a few times and moved on. They won't spend the money to enforce it. Most noncompetes I've seen were written so terribly they wouldn't have a leg to stand on anyways.
    - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
      Yeah, that really requires calling their bluff. Ideally it's a bluff.
      - paulie_a 8y ago
        It works. Non-comepetes are basically unenforceable regardless of state. They are just used to threaten and bluff. Telling them to fuck off shows you know they have no standing.
        SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
        > basically unenforceable That's different than "totally". It's harder for a janitor, who might not have the means to fight back, to try and call that bluff.
        davidmr 8y ago
        Even by the standard of what passes for legal advice on the internet, this is especially terrible advice. I also live in the Midwest and am currently sitting out a noncompete agreement (which, since it must be paid to be enforceable in my state, has been quite enjoyable). Like you, I’m also not a lawyer, but I did engage the services of a firm when I left. My lawyer informed me in no uncertain terms that my noncompete agreement was enforceable and cited several cases where a) their firm took employers to court to have the agreements tossed and lost and b) unsuccessfully defended people who did what you did and were sued by their previous employer. In general, “fuck off, sue me” usually isn’t a great legal strategy.
    - s73v3r_ 8y ago
      Problem with that advice is you have to believe they won't do anything, and know that these things are garbage when you decide to start looking for another job. If you don't know that these are garbage, or think that they will try and enforce it, then you're probably going to be dissuaded from looking for other work in the first place.
- obmelvin 8y ago
  There are many states in the Midwest and they have different laws

lawnchair_larry 8y ago

Not true, depends on the state. Californians tend to assume this is universal, but other states do uphold them.

stale2002 8y ago
Whether or not other states "uphold" them is missing the point. The point is that is is quite easy to get a job, and just not tell your previous employer. And they don't want to waste time paying a lawyer, either. You'll almost certainly get away with it, regardless of what your contract did or did not say.
- ghaff 8y ago
  For the janitor, sure. And, yes, non-competes are beyond ridiculous for janitors, fast-food workers, and the like. For senior people? It's actually a pretty small industry. If an employer actually cares, they can find out pretty quickly where an ex-employee has landed especially if they're in a visible externally-facing role. As you say, under most circumstances most companies don't actually care even if they have some boilerplate non-compete clause. But some do, especially in places where close client relationships are important or where it's a senior person moving to a direct competitor.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  At the same time, someone who signs it might not know any of that. In that case, the contract does become "valid", because no one is going to challenge the validity of it. You and I might know these clauses are unenforceable garbage, and we might be able to get a lawyer to send a nasty letter to the former company if they attempt to use it. However, that situation is not common for everyone, and unfortunately the most vulnerable in our society are the ones who get punished because of it.
kurtisc 8y ago
And Americans tend to assume you have a state...
- deleted 8y ago

adrr 8y ago

Janitors can't afford lawyers. Access to legal aid is the biggest determinant of whether a contract is enforceable or not from a functional standpoint.

revel 8y ago
Also, what are you going to do if you're forced into an arbitration court? Your chances of winning in that environment are zero, even with competent legal representation.
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
The profit margin hiring janitors is thin enough that it's not worth it for anyone who's hiring to take the risk on someone who lists as prior experience a company that is known to make it's employees sign a non-compete. It's not the employees who's actions are influenced. It's their potential other employers' actions that are influenced.