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> We simply have a drive to have sex. What? Take even a cursory glance at any IVF, PCOS, or infertility support group, and observe the outpouring of fundamenta

> We simply have a drive to have sex. What? Take even a cursory glance at any IVF, PCOS, or infertility support group, and observe the outpouring of fundamental NEED and the grief of unfulfilling that need. Humans absolutely have a drive to have children, not simply sex. Sure, there are some people who lack this desire. Usually men, sometimes women, almost always young. The childfree movement (of which I was once a part) definitely epitomizes this. The proportion of people who don't care for kids does appear to be slowly rising, but make no mistake, they are still very much a minority. Humans, almost universally, want children.

Sharlin 8y ago
Granted, I oversimplified. On the other hand it’s not even exactly clear as to when early humans figured out the causation between sex and pregnancy. But my point was more about an evolutionary drive for not having children when resources are scarce. That’s group selection, something whose mere existence is rather controversial. On the other hand, kin selection has probably played a part in prehistoric human communities, so I guess it’s complicated.
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  No, deciding not to have children when resources are scarce is not group selection. Parents have limited resources to invest in offspring. Yet offspring need a certain minimum amount of resources to be viable. If parents are not in a position to provide that level of resources, it is better for their own genes that they wait until resources are more plentiful, otherwise they risk wasting resources on an unviable child.
toasterlovin 8y ago
> The childfree movement (of which I was once a part) Glad to have you back from the dark side! I jest, but what changed your mind and/or how do you feel about things now?
- daxorid 8y ago
  What changed my mind was holding my (unplanned) daughter in my arms for the first time. I've posted a little about this before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17473013 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17473013
  - toasterlovin 8y ago
    Children are a hell of a thing. We have three and will start working on a fourth soon (and hopefully continue beyond that).

Sharlin 8y ago

Granted, I oversimplified. On the other hand it’s not even exactly clear as to when early humans figured out the causation between sex and pregnancy. But my point was more about an evolutionary drive for not having children when resources are scarce. That’s group selection, something whose mere existence is rather controversial. On the other hand, kin selection has probably played a part in prehistoric human communities, so I guess it’s complicated.

toasterlovin 8y ago
No, deciding not to have children when resources are scarce is not group selection. Parents have limited resources to invest in offspring. Yet offspring need a certain minimum amount of resources to be viable. If parents are not in a position to provide that level of resources, it is better for their own genes that they wait until resources are more plentiful, otherwise they risk wasting resources on an unviable child.

toasterlovin 8y ago

> The childfree movement (of which I was once a part) Glad to have you back from the dark side! I jest, but what changed your mind and/or how do you feel about things now?

daxorid 8y ago
What changed my mind was holding my (unplanned) daughter in my arms for the first time. I've posted a little about this before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17473013 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17473013
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  Children are a hell of a thing. We have three and will start working on a fourth soon (and hopefully continue beyond that).