4 ms·

I would bet it was the work of humans also. There are claw marks, but it seems like very few. Isn't it possible that a clawed creature found this hole and lived

I would bet it was the work of humans also. There are claw marks, but it seems like very few. Isn't it possible that a clawed creature found this hole and lived in it at some point?

ufo 8y ago
The presence and absesce of claw marks has to do with the type of rock (iirc, the claw marks appear in the clay tunnels)
pvaldes 8y ago
>There are claw marks Undistinguisable from modern pick axe marks, and with a similar angle and pressure than an human worker would apply. A much stronger animal wouldn't make such uniform and shallow marks in clay. Not all the marks in a prehistoric cave are necessarily prehistoric.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  > Undistinguisable from modern pick axe marks, and with a similar angle and pressure than an human worker would apply. A much stronger animal wouldn't make such uniform and shallow marks in clay. What a load of B.S. Have you ever done any significant manual excavation with a pickaxe and shovel? No human is going to be leaving such long and deep scars in clay with a pickaxe. The progress is much slower for mere humans, clay is an awful material to dig through. For a massive clawed animal however clay would not be such a challenge to leave such long uniform scars. Sure the pattern resembles what one might imagine a pickaxe leaving, but humans lack the force to drive a pickaxe in that fashion through clay.
  - pvaldes 8y ago
    > What a load of B.S. Have you ever done any significant manual excavation with a pickaxe and shovel? (rolleyes) Yes. I have a shovel and I'm not afraid to use it.
    - newnewpdro 8y ago
      Congratulations, shovels can be intimidating to use as far as hand tools go. Certainly more so than a pickaxe.
  - pvaldes 8y ago
    > No human is going to be leaving such long and deep scars in clay with a pickaxe > clay is an awful material to dig through. > humans lack the force to drive a pickaxe in that fashion through clay. All wrong. Digging in granite would be "awful". Digging in clay... Meh. I do it all the time. I have meet a lot of humans able to dig a hole into clay in fact, so I'm not the only one. If you find shovels "intimidating" maybe you should try it more. Even small children are able to play with it.
    - LaGrange 8y ago
      One thing is clear: you have lots of experience in _burrowing_.
- rhcom2 8y ago
  They don't look like pickaxe marks at all to me. They aren't as uniform or straight, they aren't all going in the same direction and they don't have uniform depths. https://perstoremyr.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/krauchthal_8.jpg https://perstoremyr.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/krauchthal_8... vs http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/files/2017/03/paleoburrow-3.jpg http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/files/2017/03/paleobu...
  - pvaldes 8y ago
    The marks in the first photo are done by a stone chisel (or something similar), not the kind of marks that a pick axe would make normally. Very different tools with different purposes. But I see where you are going. https://per-storemyr.net/2013/01/22/stone-extraction-with-pickaxes-in-ancient-egypt-fact-or-fiction/ https://per-storemyr.net/2013/01/22/stone-extraction-with-pi... The fact that a pick axe can be used like a chisel does not mean that it couldn't produce other types of marks also.

I would bet it was the work of humans also. There are claw marks, but it seems like very few. Isn't it possible that a clawed creature found this hole and lived in it at some point?

ufo 8y ago

The presence and absesce of claw marks has to do with the type of rock (iirc, the claw marks appear in the clay tunnels)

pvaldes 8y ago

>There are claw marks Undistinguisable from modern pick axe marks, and with a similar angle and pressure than an human worker would apply. A much stronger animal wouldn't make such uniform and shallow marks in clay. Not all the marks in a prehistoric cave are necessarily prehistoric.

newnewpdro 8y ago
> Undistinguisable from modern pick axe marks, and with a similar angle and pressure than an human worker would apply. A much stronger animal wouldn't make such uniform and shallow marks in clay. What a load of B.S. Have you ever done any significant manual excavation with a pickaxe and shovel? No human is going to be leaving such long and deep scars in clay with a pickaxe. The progress is much slower for mere humans, clay is an awful material to dig through. For a massive clawed animal however clay would not be such a challenge to leave such long uniform scars. Sure the pattern resembles what one might imagine a pickaxe leaving, but humans lack the force to drive a pickaxe in that fashion through clay.
- pvaldes 8y ago
  > What a load of B.S. Have you ever done any significant manual excavation with a pickaxe and shovel? (rolleyes) Yes. I have a shovel and I'm not afraid to use it.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    Congratulations, shovels can be intimidating to use as far as hand tools go. Certainly more so than a pickaxe.
- pvaldes 8y ago
  > No human is going to be leaving such long and deep scars in clay with a pickaxe > clay is an awful material to dig through. > humans lack the force to drive a pickaxe in that fashion through clay. All wrong. Digging in granite would be "awful". Digging in clay... Meh. I do it all the time. I have meet a lot of humans able to dig a hole into clay in fact, so I'm not the only one. If you find shovels "intimidating" maybe you should try it more. Even small children are able to play with it.
  - LaGrange 8y ago
    One thing is clear: you have lots of experience in _burrowing_.
rhcom2 8y ago
They don't look like pickaxe marks at all to me. They aren't as uniform or straight, they aren't all going in the same direction and they don't have uniform depths. https://perstoremyr.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/krauchthal_8.jpg https://perstoremyr.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/krauchthal_8... vs http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/files/2017/03/paleoburrow-3.jpg http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/files/2017/03/paleobu...
- pvaldes 8y ago
  The marks in the first photo are done by a stone chisel (or something similar), not the kind of marks that a pick axe would make normally. Very different tools with different purposes. But I see where you are going. https://per-storemyr.net/2013/01/22/stone-extraction-with-pickaxes-in-ancient-egypt-fact-or-fiction/ https://per-storemyr.net/2013/01/22/stone-extraction-with-pi... The fact that a pick axe can be used like a chisel does not mean that it couldn't produce other types of marks also.