5 ms·

> I accept it as a tax on eating out. I'm highlighting this part because it's one of the main contributing factors to dining out less and less, for me, and tha

> I accept it as a tax on eating out. I'm highlighting this part because it's one of the main contributing factors to dining out less and less, for me, and that includes coffee shops. I always tip well when going out; ergo, I don't go out as often. Going off of the "I'm not very unique" rule of thumb, businesses are losing some amount of money because of tipping culture.

ghaff 8y ago
>businesses are losing some amount of money because of tipping culture Only in the most trivial sense that people know that, between sales tax and tipping, they're going to be paying a price that's 25-30% more than what's printed on the menu. And most people have some degree of price elasticity. But I honestly can't imagine it matters much whether those adders are folded into the price up-front or you just know that you're going to be paying more than the printed price when you get the bill.
- pkaye 8y ago
  Apparently it does make a difference or restaurants would have just raised their prices and incorporated the tips.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    Path dependence. The problem is that, if just one restaurant does it, a lot of people see the higher prices and don't realize a service charge and sales tax is included at that one particular restaurant. It's not unheard of to do but it's very uncommon and mostly doesn't work out well. (Plus both waiters and customers are mostly just used to the current system.)
  - wool_gather 8y ago
    This is starting to happen, albeit slowly. It's tied in to a push to equalize income between the back and front of the house. In the currently-prevailing model, back of the house is totally screwed money-wise relative to the front.
- thaumaturgy 8y ago
  I don't think it's all that trivial. In the first place, I tip well partly because of information asymmetry: I don't know how well the staff are paid from one place to the next. This means that one place may pay their staff pretty well, and I'm still adding 20% to the cost of my ticket, and another place may pay their staff pretty poorly. This is placing the two businesses on an uneven competitive footing, and encouraging more businesses to pay their staff as poorly as they can get away with. This may be business-as-usual in the current American business culture, but the end result is that I'm subsidizing bad business practices. I'm also subsidizing poor tippers. I know there are people out there who, for whatever reason they justify to themselves, don't tip, and I know that there are some businesses that don't pay a living wage (probably most, today), so I try to cover an extra portion of that cost. It's also removing much of the incentive for food service businesses to seek out untapped efficiencies. I'm pretty sure labor costs are the largest expense category for any food service business, yet they continue to pile on more staff because people like me are helping them get away with it. I can order a Starbucks from an app on my phone, right? So why is there someone at a cash register who punches my order in to a machine when they've already got the software that would let me do it myself? If tipping were banished and these businesses had to pay all of their staff a fair wage, it's likely that my total bill would go down.
PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago
>I don't go out as often. At what point do we begin to consider that choice stiffing the waiters you would've tipped if you did go out? P.S. I also avoid going to coffee shops where tipping is expected.

ghaff 8y ago

>businesses are losing some amount of money because of tipping culture Only in the most trivial sense that people know that, between sales tax and tipping, they're going to be paying a price that's 25-30% more than what's printed on the menu. And most people have some degree of price elasticity. But I honestly can't imagine it matters much whether those adders are folded into the price up-front or you just know that you're going to be paying more than the printed price when you get the bill.

pkaye 8y ago
Apparently it does make a difference or restaurants would have just raised their prices and incorporated the tips.
- ghaff 8y ago
  Path dependence. The problem is that, if just one restaurant does it, a lot of people see the higher prices and don't realize a service charge and sales tax is included at that one particular restaurant. It's not unheard of to do but it's very uncommon and mostly doesn't work out well. (Plus both waiters and customers are mostly just used to the current system.)
- wool_gather 8y ago
  This is starting to happen, albeit slowly. It's tied in to a push to equalize income between the back and front of the house. In the currently-prevailing model, back of the house is totally screwed money-wise relative to the front.
thaumaturgy 8y ago
I don't think it's all that trivial. In the first place, I tip well partly because of information asymmetry: I don't know how well the staff are paid from one place to the next. This means that one place may pay their staff pretty well, and I'm still adding 20% to the cost of my ticket, and another place may pay their staff pretty poorly. This is placing the two businesses on an uneven competitive footing, and encouraging more businesses to pay their staff as poorly as they can get away with. This may be business-as-usual in the current American business culture, but the end result is that I'm subsidizing bad business practices. I'm also subsidizing poor tippers. I know there are people out there who, for whatever reason they justify to themselves, don't tip, and I know that there are some businesses that don't pay a living wage (probably most, today), so I try to cover an extra portion of that cost. It's also removing much of the incentive for food service businesses to seek out untapped efficiencies. I'm pretty sure labor costs are the largest expense category for any food service business, yet they continue to pile on more staff because people like me are helping them get away with it. I can order a Starbucks from an app on my phone, right? So why is there someone at a cash register who punches my order in to a machine when they've already got the software that would let me do it myself? If tipping were banished and these businesses had to pay all of their staff a fair wage, it's likely that my total bill would go down.

PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago

>I don't go out as often. At what point do we begin to consider that choice stiffing the waiters you would've tipped if you did go out? P.S. I also avoid going to coffee shops where tipping is expected.