4 ms·

Supposedly the ability to guess how long a minute is also goes that way as you get older, e.g. older participants think a minutes is over after 62s or more. So

Supposedly the ability to guess how long a minute is also goes that way as you get older, e.g. older participants think a minutes is over after 62s or more. So if your internal clock slows down a B would sound like a C.

notatcomputer68 8y ago
Wow that's a fascinating possible explanation
- klipt 8y ago
  Unlikely true though, you don't analyze pitches using an internal clock, rather you cochlea acts like an analog fourier transform.
  - retsibsi 8y ago
    > you don't analyze pitches using an internal clock, rather you cochlea acts like an analog fourier transform. I'm out of my depth here, but wouldn't that process still require some kind of 'clock' (albeit not necessarily the one used for conscious time perception) in order to resolve the signal into absolute, rather than relative, frequencies?
    - dTal 8y ago
      Nope - the transform is analog. You have a tube, and the sound propagates down the tube; higher frequencies get absorbed first, while lower frequencies make it further. The tube is lined with little hairs that just sense amplitude; each hair thus measures the amplitude of the signal convolved by the frequency response of that spot in the tube (actually pulling a pure tone out of that is a remarkable feat of signal processing as there is huge overlap). So no clock is required - an absolute frequency turns into an absolute pattern of nerve stimulus.
      - gugagore 8y ago
        If I may emphasize your point, the frequency reference doesn't come from a neurological time-keeping mechanism. Instead it comes from physical resonance. So it is definitely still a "clock". It's like having many pendulum clocks in your ear. However it is unlikely that whatever you use to count by seconds has to do with the little pendulums (pendula) in your ear.
    - gugagore 8y ago
      It does require a kind of clock, in my opinion. I responded to a sibling comment with my thoughts.
  - gugagore 8y ago
    Note that you're putting forth "the place theory of hearing perception". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_theory_(hearing) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_theory_(hearing) There are links other possible theories on that page, namely the temporal theory, which does propose we rely on neuronal clocks. It seems likely to me that both theories play a role in pitch perception.
oblio 8y ago
Is there some sort of online test to figure out if you’re tone deaf. Every time people talk about B, C, etc. and then reproduce the sound with another instrument, I have no idea what it’s supposed to be...
- beat 8y ago
  It's unlikely that you're tone deaf. It's quite rare. Truly tone deaf people can't really hear music, because they can't hear the relative relationships of pitches properly. It's the relative pitches, not the absolute pitches, that create the ebb and flow of music. I've been playing music for thirty-odd years, and I couldn't name pitches by ear most of the time, certainly not without thinking about it. I often hand-tune guitars (relatively!) if I'm playing by myself, and after a few days of that, it's not unusual to be more than a half-step out of whack. I don't notice, because it's in tune with itself.
  - AlecSchueler 8y ago
    It's entirely possible he could be tone deaf. Congenital amusia (tone deafness) affects about 4% of the population.
    - retsibsi 8y ago
      Definitely possible, but I suspect there are also quite a lot of people like me, who have a fairly poor ear for intervals (let alone absolute pitch) and are baffled by a lot of the things that seem 'obvious' to others, but wouldn't meet the criteria for amusia.
  - maaark 8y ago
    There's a lesser form of tone-deafness (perhaps that's not the right word for it) where you can't tell with certainly or consistency the direction or extent of a change in pitch. You can still hear and appreciate music, but you can't whistle or hum along to a tune.
    - gugagore 8y ago

notatcomputer68 8y ago

Wow that's a fascinating possible explanation

klipt 8y ago
Unlikely true though, you don't analyze pitches using an internal clock, rather you cochlea acts like an analog fourier transform.
- retsibsi 8y ago
  > you don't analyze pitches using an internal clock, rather you cochlea acts like an analog fourier transform. I'm out of my depth here, but wouldn't that process still require some kind of 'clock' (albeit not necessarily the one used for conscious time perception) in order to resolve the signal into absolute, rather than relative, frequencies?
  - dTal 8y ago
    Nope - the transform is analog. You have a tube, and the sound propagates down the tube; higher frequencies get absorbed first, while lower frequencies make it further. The tube is lined with little hairs that just sense amplitude; each hair thus measures the amplitude of the signal convolved by the frequency response of that spot in the tube (actually pulling a pure tone out of that is a remarkable feat of signal processing as there is huge overlap). So no clock is required - an absolute frequency turns into an absolute pattern of nerve stimulus.
    - gugagore 8y ago
      If I may emphasize your point, the frequency reference doesn't come from a neurological time-keeping mechanism. Instead it comes from physical resonance. So it is definitely still a "clock". It's like having many pendulum clocks in your ear. However it is unlikely that whatever you use to count by seconds has to do with the little pendulums (pendula) in your ear.
  - gugagore 8y ago
    It does require a kind of clock, in my opinion. I responded to a sibling comment with my thoughts.
- gugagore 8y ago
  Note that you're putting forth "the place theory of hearing perception". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_theory_(hearing) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_theory_(hearing) There are links other possible theories on that page, namely the temporal theory, which does propose we rely on neuronal clocks. It seems likely to me that both theories play a role in pitch perception.

oblio 8y ago

Is there some sort of online test to figure out if you’re tone deaf. Every time people talk about B, C, etc. and then reproduce the sound with another instrument, I have no idea what it’s supposed to be...

beat 8y ago
It's unlikely that you're tone deaf. It's quite rare. Truly tone deaf people can't really hear music, because they can't hear the relative relationships of pitches properly. It's the relative pitches, not the absolute pitches, that create the ebb and flow of music. I've been playing music for thirty-odd years, and I couldn't name pitches by ear most of the time, certainly not without thinking about it. I often hand-tune guitars (relatively!) if I'm playing by myself, and after a few days of that, it's not unusual to be more than a half-step out of whack. I don't notice, because it's in tune with itself.
- AlecSchueler 8y ago
  It's entirely possible he could be tone deaf. Congenital amusia (tone deafness) affects about 4% of the population.
  - retsibsi 8y ago
    Definitely possible, but I suspect there are also quite a lot of people like me, who have a fairly poor ear for intervals (let alone absolute pitch) and are baffled by a lot of the things that seem 'obvious' to others, but wouldn't meet the criteria for amusia.
- maaark 8y ago
  There's a lesser form of tone-deafness (perhaps that's not the right word for it) where you can't tell with certainly or consistency the direction or extent of a change in pitch. You can still hear and appreciate music, but you can't whistle or hum along to a tune.
  - gugagore 8y ago