4 ms·

The reason America has awful education and healthcare is not due to lack of taxes. It's due to government mismanagement.

trhway 8y ago
What government do you mean? My understanding is that schools are managed by local boards. You can't get farther from the "government" and closer to people than that.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > My understanding is that schools are managed by local boards. The local boards often do not have the power to: (1) Raise revenue that would fund much independently of outside funding, (2) Freely control how much of funding they do have is spent, because the outside funding sources or superior (e.g., state) law independent of funding sets narrow parameters for many of their decisions.
  - Rebelgecko 8y ago
    For every where I've lived (granted, 4 districts all in California), neither of those were the case. Districts can raise tens or hundreds of millions of dollars via bonds (requires voter approval but usually passes). They can also pass parcel taxes, which aren't subject to Prop 13 although they can be regressive. Most of their money does still come from the state, but IMO that's not a bad thing, since keeping it more local raises issues with income inequality. There's very few limits on how they spend their money. I think the only caveat is that districts get extra amounts of ADA money based on the attendance of certain categories of students (e.g. ones that are still learning English). They're supposed to spend that money on relevant programs, and the county has to certify that the spending on those programs lines up with the amount of extra money that is being received.
- behringer 8y ago
  I don't know of any government that's not mismanaged. Some are just worse than others.
  - samontar 8y ago
    Singapore?
  - forkandwait 8y ago
    The same can be said of private industry. True in my experience.
    - bpyne 8y ago
      Thank you for saying what I was thinking. Anyone who has worked in a multi-billion dollar corporation has experienced mismanagement. I think it has to do with organizations that get beyond a certain size.
      - forkandwait 8y ago
        I think it's just the human condition.
    - nostrademons 8y ago
      Or any individual firm. You get functional systems through competition, having many choices so that even if one (or 90%) of them are crap, you can go to the one which isn't. There is by definition no competition at any level of government, which is why so many government-managed services are crap. There is also little competition with most big businesses, which is why big businesses are crap. There is plenty of competition among small businesses, which is why you can go to most walkable downtowns and pick a restaurant and it'll be pretty good, or visit most AirBnB hosts and have a decent stay, or look for a favorite YouTube channel and find one that's interesting.
- dantheman 8y ago
  The department of education and no child left behind are two federal disasters that have wreaked havoc on public education.
  - tzs 8y ago
    On average, school funding in the US breaks down to about 45% from local, 45% state, and 10% Federal. Couldn't a state, or a district in a state, opt out of Federal funding and then be free from those Federal programs and policies? Yes, they would lose 10% of funding, but if Federal policies are the reason our schools spend way more per student with worse results than other OECD countries, then getting out from those policies should let them massively improve even with the reduced budget. [1] https://www.npr.org/2016/04/18/474256366/why-americas-schools-have-a-money-problem https://www.npr.org/2016/04/18/474256366/why-americas-school...
omegaworks 8y ago
No, it's due to the fact every school gets the majority of its funding from local property taxes, and America has 200 years of experience packing all the poor people and minorities into districts that white elites don't contribute to. There is an aversion to investing in society at large because it benefits the poor and black. Even if that investment pays off double, triple, sextuple times what is put in[1]. People value white supremacy higher than even their own safety net[2]. 1. https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/12/12/504867570/how-investing-in-preschool-beats-the-stock-market-hands-down https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/12/12/504867570/how-inv... 2. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/americans-welfare-perceptions-survey_us_5a7880cde4b0d3df1d13f60b https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/americans-welfare-perce...
- behringer 8y ago
  It's almost as if the government mismanaged this whole affair.
  - omegaworks 8y ago
    You can keep pushing that view, but it is too narrow to be of use whatsoever. The government here is structured to make public schooling answerable to local concerns and funded by local taxes. It's the barest minimum government you can apply. Private schooling only amplifies the issues with this system. It has all the same problems, along with not needing to be transparent or accountable to the public.
    - behringer 8y ago
      It isn't too narrow, it's the exact problem. The US has failed to protect the people, it has failed to protect our planet, and it has failed to protect anybody but the rich. The US government is fundamentally flawed.
      - dorchadas 8y ago
        > The US government is fundamentally flawed. I think part of this stems from how much power the states have, to be honest. There's no overarching system of, say, education that can really be used to hold States accountable for what they teach and appropriation of funds and such. Sure, they're bound by some regulations if they accept federal funding, but it's nowhere near enough. They can choose willy-nilly to just change it up, by stopping the federal funding...which is often a decision made on politics rather than what's good for the kids. Not to mention that American secondary schools are going through an identity crisis, as I see it.
sneak 8y ago
FWIW, America has some of the best healthcare in the world. It just sadly also happens to be the most expensive.

trhway 8y ago

What government do you mean? My understanding is that schools are managed by local boards. You can't get farther from the "government" and closer to people than that.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> My understanding is that schools are managed by local boards. The local boards often do not have the power to: (1) Raise revenue that would fund much independently of outside funding, (2) Freely control how much of funding they do have is spent, because the outside funding sources or superior (e.g., state) law independent of funding sets narrow parameters for many of their decisions.
- Rebelgecko 8y ago
  For every where I've lived (granted, 4 districts all in California), neither of those were the case. Districts can raise tens or hundreds of millions of dollars via bonds (requires voter approval but usually passes). They can also pass parcel taxes, which aren't subject to Prop 13 although they can be regressive. Most of their money does still come from the state, but IMO that's not a bad thing, since keeping it more local raises issues with income inequality. There's very few limits on how they spend their money. I think the only caveat is that districts get extra amounts of ADA money based on the attendance of certain categories of students (e.g. ones that are still learning English). They're supposed to spend that money on relevant programs, and the county has to certify that the spending on those programs lines up with the amount of extra money that is being received.
behringer 8y ago
I don't know of any government that's not mismanaged. Some are just worse than others.
- samontar 8y ago
  Singapore?
- forkandwait 8y ago
  The same can be said of private industry. True in my experience.
  - bpyne 8y ago
    Thank you for saying what I was thinking. Anyone who has worked in a multi-billion dollar corporation has experienced mismanagement. I think it has to do with organizations that get beyond a certain size.
    - forkandwait 8y ago
      I think it's just the human condition.
  - nostrademons 8y ago
    Or any individual firm. You get functional systems through competition, having many choices so that even if one (or 90%) of them are crap, you can go to the one which isn't. There is by definition no competition at any level of government, which is why so many government-managed services are crap. There is also little competition with most big businesses, which is why big businesses are crap. There is plenty of competition among small businesses, which is why you can go to most walkable downtowns and pick a restaurant and it'll be pretty good, or visit most AirBnB hosts and have a decent stay, or look for a favorite YouTube channel and find one that's interesting.
dantheman 8y ago
The department of education and no child left behind are two federal disasters that have wreaked havoc on public education.
- tzs 8y ago
  On average, school funding in the US breaks down to about 45% from local, 45% state, and 10% Federal. Couldn't a state, or a district in a state, opt out of Federal funding and then be free from those Federal programs and policies? Yes, they would lose 10% of funding, but if Federal policies are the reason our schools spend way more per student with worse results than other OECD countries, then getting out from those policies should let them massively improve even with the reduced budget. [1] https://www.npr.org/2016/04/18/474256366/why-americas-schools-have-a-money-problem https://www.npr.org/2016/04/18/474256366/why-americas-school...

omegaworks 8y ago

No, it's due to the fact every school gets the majority of its funding from local property taxes, and America has 200 years of experience packing all the poor people and minorities into districts that white elites don't contribute to. There is an aversion to investing in society at large because it benefits the poor and black. Even if that investment pays off double, triple, sextuple times what is put in[1]. People value white supremacy higher than even their own safety net[2]. 1. https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/12/12/504867570/how-investing-in-preschool-beats-the-stock-market-hands-down https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/12/12/504867570/how-inv... 2. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/americans-welfare-perceptions-survey_us_5a7880cde4b0d3df1d13f60b https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/americans-welfare-perce...

behringer 8y ago
It's almost as if the government mismanaged this whole affair.
- omegaworks 8y ago
  You can keep pushing that view, but it is too narrow to be of use whatsoever. The government here is structured to make public schooling answerable to local concerns and funded by local taxes. It's the barest minimum government you can apply. Private schooling only amplifies the issues with this system. It has all the same problems, along with not needing to be transparent or accountable to the public.
  - behringer 8y ago
    It isn't too narrow, it's the exact problem. The US has failed to protect the people, it has failed to protect our planet, and it has failed to protect anybody but the rich. The US government is fundamentally flawed.
    - dorchadas 8y ago
      > The US government is fundamentally flawed. I think part of this stems from how much power the states have, to be honest. There's no overarching system of, say, education that can really be used to hold States accountable for what they teach and appropriation of funds and such. Sure, they're bound by some regulations if they accept federal funding, but it's nowhere near enough. They can choose willy-nilly to just change it up, by stopping the federal funding...which is often a decision made on politics rather than what's good for the kids. Not to mention that American secondary schools are going through an identity crisis, as I see it.

sneak 8y ago

FWIW, America has some of the best healthcare in the world. It just sadly also happens to be the most expensive.