4 ms·

>> We should have been working on the development of a 386 for the past year, but so far it has not been possible for us to turn up even one such machine. I gu

>> We should have been working on the development of a 386 for the past year, but so far it has not been possible for us to turn up even one such machine. I guess that has been true for everything.

stormking 8y ago
No. Basic needs like food, clothing etc. were fully covered. Any kind of electronics (e.g. a color TV) were hard to acquire. You had to wait 10 years to be able to buy a new car. And housing was a big problem. Women in the GDR typically became pregnant at a very young age (18-21) because a family with a child had the right to get its own apartment.
- severino 8y ago
  Well, here in the west you also had the right to get your own apartment at that age. You only didn't have the bucks ;-)
- jlg23 8y ago
  > Women in the GDR typically became pregnant at a very young age (18-21) because a family with a child had the right to get its own apartment. This is one way to look at it. The other way: free, guaranteed child care (probably mandatory for most as well) for every kid just a few months old. You could easily have a kid and study or work - that was the norm, not the exception. Disclaimer: I'm the kid of a woman who got her PhD in medicine in east Germany. "Feminism" was a concept I only learned about when the wall fell. In the east, as far as I can see, it was a woman's duty to be productive for society, not about a "right to work while raising kids".
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    In terms of women's participation in the workforce the communist states were far ahead of the West. Not sure how that came about.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > In terms of women's participation in the workforce the communist states were far ahead of the West. Not sure how that came about. The liberation of women of all social classes in capitalism from the subservient role as an “instrument of production” in “bourgeois marriage” and/or coerced into a system of “prostitution both public and private” was called out as a natural consequence of Communism in the Communist Manifesto. So, it's quite easy to see why it would be something Communist states would want to demonstrate success at, and when the State directs work, it's not hard to control relative penetration in the workforce to suit the goals of the leadership.
      - claudiawerner 8y ago
        Not only that, but feminist Marxism had already taken off by that point, and it's been a present (albeit relatively quiet) topic of discussion ever since Engels. I'm honestly surprised people (especially on HN) don't know about the ideological roots of the liberation of women in Marxism (or Communism generally). Liberation is a fundamental principle; the comment you're replying to makes it seem as though women in the workforce is antithetical to Communism, or something.
    - AnarchoYeasty 8y ago
      Feminism has been a crucial part of Communist ideology for just about ever. In America at the time of the revolution, some of the most influential communist leaders and thinkers were women. Our ideology is one of eliminating barriers that separate people, and that includes gender, sexual orientation, national identity, race, and economic status. Where Liberalism was the ideology of Capital, Socialism was about people.
    - bildung 8y ago
      > In terms of women's participation in the workforce the communist states were far ahead of the West. Equal rights were implemented by law since inception of East Germany in 1949. In West Germany, the husband could legally forbid his wife to work until 1977(!). Being gay was also legalized earlier than in West Germany.
- rmetzler 8y ago
  As far as I know - I was 9 years old when the wall fell - you had the right to get your own apartment as soon as you were married. Probably there was some kind of waiting list and several factors would determine were on that list you were.
  - dfox 8y ago
    One should probably qualify for western audience that it was not a right to get appartment that you then owned but a right to rent an appartment which was typically owned by (and the rent was heavily subsidized by) your employer.
- bildung 8y ago
  To add to that: basic needs were also either free or heavily subsidized. Child care was completely free even for the smallest ones, free food in child care and school. Clothing for children was cheap, as were books etc. for kids. Apartments were subsidized (renting a modern apartment did cost less than 10% of montly income etc.). Health care was completely free, everything, including dentists etc. OTOH "luxuries" like color TV, computers etc. were pretty expensive. Despite ethics (equal rights of men and women was a big reason) one factor was macro economic ties to Russia; East Germany (as other countries) had to produce stuff for exporting into Russia, partly without the agreed-upon imports in return. Over time this created major imbalances and thus the need to import from Western Europe, which in turn meant a high need for foreign currency. To obtain foreign currency, domestic production had to be exported in higher amounts than anticipated, thus less output was there for local consumption and investments.
rasz 8y ago
Only in official capacity. There was little problem smuggling computers from West Germany pre 1990. For example Amstrad PC2000 386 1989 model was priced at around 10K DM (Deutsche marks), around 50-100K DDM (east germany marks) with black market exchange rates, Vax clone Robotron K1840 mentioned in the article was 2M DDM. Amiga 500 (similar specs to K1840, minus the MMU :P) was 900 DM - average price of XT clone in West Germany. Robotron manufactured XT clones were 35-55K DDM, 3-5 times more expensive than in the west. It doesnt take a rocked surgeon to guess what happened to Robotron after Germany unification.
- krylon 8y ago
  The name Robotron, though, is awesome!
- Annatar 8y ago
  Please shed more detail on this aspect! Was the Amiga popular in East Germany?
  - setquk 8y ago
    http://www.robotrontechnik.de/ http://www.robotrontechnik.de/ Have a click around here with google translate. Loads of cool info.
    - Annatar 8y ago
      German is one of the languages I speak fluently, no need for Google translate (;-) Thanks for the link!
  - rasz 8y ago
    No idea about East Germany, but it was top end hardware in Poland around 1989, cheaper and more popular than PCs, and easily obtainable even before the fall of Iron curtain as long as you had the cash. The cost was ~5-10 salaries, C64 was 1-3. PCs were rare and crazy expensive, XT cost almost twice as much as A500. 1989 salary was ~100 DM using black market exchange rate. 1990 was the year Russian occupation of Poland officially ended, salary jumped to 170 DM, owning western money stopped being illegal dissolving currency black market. 1991 salary went up to 300 DM, and so on.. Even pre 1989 CoCom embargo was not enforced on the west crossing for ordinary border traffic. Anyone on business trip could just stuff a computer into his car trunk, or a couple with appropriate bribes ready for east border guards.

>> We should have been working on the development of a 386 for the past year, but so far it has not been possible for us to turn up even one such machine. I guess that has been true for everything.

stormking 8y ago

No. Basic needs like food, clothing etc. were fully covered. Any kind of electronics (e.g. a color TV) were hard to acquire. You had to wait 10 years to be able to buy a new car. And housing was a big problem. Women in the GDR typically became pregnant at a very young age (18-21) because a family with a child had the right to get its own apartment.

severino 8y ago
Well, here in the west you also had the right to get your own apartment at that age. You only didn't have the bucks ;-)
jlg23 8y ago
> Women in the GDR typically became pregnant at a very young age (18-21) because a family with a child had the right to get its own apartment. This is one way to look at it. The other way: free, guaranteed child care (probably mandatory for most as well) for every kid just a few months old. You could easily have a kid and study or work - that was the norm, not the exception. Disclaimer: I'm the kid of a woman who got her PhD in medicine in east Germany. "Feminism" was a concept I only learned about when the wall fell. In the east, as far as I can see, it was a woman's duty to be productive for society, not about a "right to work while raising kids".
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  In terms of women's participation in the workforce the communist states were far ahead of the West. Not sure how that came about.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > In terms of women's participation in the workforce the communist states were far ahead of the West. Not sure how that came about. The liberation of women of all social classes in capitalism from the subservient role as an “instrument of production” in “bourgeois marriage” and/or coerced into a system of “prostitution both public and private” was called out as a natural consequence of Communism in the Communist Manifesto. So, it's quite easy to see why it would be something Communist states would want to demonstrate success at, and when the State directs work, it's not hard to control relative penetration in the workforce to suit the goals of the leadership.
    - claudiawerner 8y ago
      Not only that, but feminist Marxism had already taken off by that point, and it's been a present (albeit relatively quiet) topic of discussion ever since Engels. I'm honestly surprised people (especially on HN) don't know about the ideological roots of the liberation of women in Marxism (or Communism generally). Liberation is a fundamental principle; the comment you're replying to makes it seem as though women in the workforce is antithetical to Communism, or something.
  - AnarchoYeasty 8y ago
    Feminism has been a crucial part of Communist ideology for just about ever. In America at the time of the revolution, some of the most influential communist leaders and thinkers were women. Our ideology is one of eliminating barriers that separate people, and that includes gender, sexual orientation, national identity, race, and economic status. Where Liberalism was the ideology of Capital, Socialism was about people.
  - bildung 8y ago
    > In terms of women's participation in the workforce the communist states were far ahead of the West. Equal rights were implemented by law since inception of East Germany in 1949. In West Germany, the husband could legally forbid his wife to work until 1977(!). Being gay was also legalized earlier than in West Germany.
rmetzler 8y ago
As far as I know - I was 9 years old when the wall fell - you had the right to get your own apartment as soon as you were married. Probably there was some kind of waiting list and several factors would determine were on that list you were.
- dfox 8y ago
  One should probably qualify for western audience that it was not a right to get appartment that you then owned but a right to rent an appartment which was typically owned by (and the rent was heavily subsidized by) your employer.
bildung 8y ago
To add to that: basic needs were also either free or heavily subsidized. Child care was completely free even for the smallest ones, free food in child care and school. Clothing for children was cheap, as were books etc. for kids. Apartments were subsidized (renting a modern apartment did cost less than 10% of montly income etc.). Health care was completely free, everything, including dentists etc. OTOH "luxuries" like color TV, computers etc. were pretty expensive. Despite ethics (equal rights of men and women was a big reason) one factor was macro economic ties to Russia; East Germany (as other countries) had to produce stuff for exporting into Russia, partly without the agreed-upon imports in return. Over time this created major imbalances and thus the need to import from Western Europe, which in turn meant a high need for foreign currency. To obtain foreign currency, domestic production had to be exported in higher amounts than anticipated, thus less output was there for local consumption and investments.

rasz 8y ago

Only in official capacity. There was little problem smuggling computers from West Germany pre 1990. For example Amstrad PC2000 386 1989 model was priced at around 10K DM (Deutsche marks), around 50-100K DDM (east germany marks) with black market exchange rates, Vax clone Robotron K1840 mentioned in the article was 2M DDM. Amiga 500 (similar specs to K1840, minus the MMU :P) was 900 DM - average price of XT clone in West Germany. Robotron manufactured XT clones were 35-55K DDM, 3-5 times more expensive than in the west. It doesnt take a rocked surgeon to guess what happened to Robotron after Germany unification.

krylon 8y ago
The name Robotron, though, is awesome!
Annatar 8y ago
Please shed more detail on this aspect! Was the Amiga popular in East Germany?
- setquk 8y ago
  http://www.robotrontechnik.de/ http://www.robotrontechnik.de/ Have a click around here with google translate. Loads of cool info.
  - Annatar 8y ago
    German is one of the languages I speak fluently, no need for Google translate (;-) Thanks for the link!
- rasz 8y ago
  No idea about East Germany, but it was top end hardware in Poland around 1989, cheaper and more popular than PCs, and easily obtainable even before the fall of Iron curtain as long as you had the cash. The cost was ~5-10 salaries, C64 was 1-3. PCs were rare and crazy expensive, XT cost almost twice as much as A500. 1989 salary was ~100 DM using black market exchange rate. 1990 was the year Russian occupation of Poland officially ended, salary jumped to 170 DM, owning western money stopped being illegal dissolving currency black market. 1991 salary went up to 300 DM, and so on.. Even pre 1989 CoCom embargo was not enforced on the west crossing for ordinary border traffic. Anyone on business trip could just stuff a computer into his car trunk, or a couple with appropriate bribes ready for east border guards.