4 ms·

The people you hurt by not tipping aren't the people who set the prices.

jjuhl 8y ago
That's simply not my problem. Why should I care? If they are unhappy with their wages they should complain to their employer. It's not my job to fix their wages.
- laken 8y ago
  Due to how US wage laws work for "service" employees, you _are_ somewhat of an "employer" while they're servicing you. You pay them a tip for their service. If you don't want to tip, you don't get served a sit-down meal. Stiffing is a serious asshole move, and it doesn't contribute anything positive.
  - jjuhl 8y ago
    Luckily I don't care one iota about that. And my bank balance likes me for it. You seem to be obsessed with how other people view your actions. I'm not. Simple as that.
- pbiggar 8y ago
  > "That's simply not my problem" That's an unfortunate attitude. I thought a lot like you, but when I realized the wage disparity here - I could afford to go eat at these fancy places, which my servers definitely could not - I chose to make it my problem. Other people's problems are not yours, but if you can choose to help (for example, if you can afford to help), you should.
  - Udik 8y ago
    > Other people's problems are not yours, but if you can choose to help (for example, if you can afford to help), you should. The problem with this is that by tipping you simply move the problem of underpaid waiters to the next customer and to the next day. If everyone just stopped tipping, the tips would be included in the prices, everybody would be paying taxes, and the tipping issue would just cease to exist. The prices would stay more or less the same, as those are the prices that people are willing to pay, whether the tip is already included or not.
    - pbiggar 8y ago
      > If everyone just stopped tipping, the tips would be included in the prices, everybody would be paying taxes, and the tipping issue would just cease to exist. That is not my understanding of how the world works.
      - Udik 8y ago
        I agree that if the convention for the tip is a fixed percentage of the value of the purchase, then a waiter is basically guaranteed a share of the owner's revenue (revenue, not even profits!) At the same time, the vast majority of the jobs don't warrant tips- including all waitressing jobs outside the US- and this doesn't prevent workers from making a living wage out of them. So yes, I think that if people stopped tipping, owners would be forced to pay waiters more, and raise their prices accordingly, as everybody already does elsewhere. On the other end, it's true that waiters might end up making less money, as the revenue-sharing model might be unreasonably generous in some cases.
  - Z-Widwil 8y ago
    What if you're not eating at fancy places? Now, I'm not suggesting they provide any less of a service, but I've eaten at taco carts that expect the same level of tipping (15-20%). These are places that the server definitely _could_ also eat at. If they are making the same amount of money (and possibly more), why is it still the customers responsibility to tip? At that point it isn't for the employee to make up for low wages. It is also usually paid prior to receiving your food, so it isn't for improved service. In this case the business could increase the base price and reject tips. If they directed that money to employees it would make budgeting easier for them and make no difference to the customers.
  - Jach 8y ago
    That's not a very robust moral imperative and hinges on what you mean by "afford". It also ignores the case that some people don't want your help because it would cheapen the feeling of overcoming their problems on their own.
- PascLeRasc 8y ago
  How much time have you spent working food service?
lightbyte 8y ago
Those people should feel hurt by the managers not paying them enough not customers who chose not to pity pay them
- happytoexplain 8y ago
  I'm not sure it's constructive to accuse such a large category of people of not "feeling" the right way. It's not as if they're ignorant of the situation.
nraynaud 8y ago
well, when 100,000 Iraqis where killed for 9/11, I didn't see that much outrage. Those waiters are on an open job market. But I would just change the law: set a normal minimum wage and advertise tax included prices. And probably nudge as much as possible against the tip (I don't think it's bad enough that we need to make it a crime), but IMF has a dim view on the tip, it encourages corruption in all society.

That's simply not my problem. Why should I care? If they are unhappy with their wages they should complain to their employer. It's not my job to fix their wages.

laken 8y ago
Due to how US wage laws work for "service" employees, you _are_ somewhat of an "employer" while they're servicing you. You pay them a tip for their service. If you don't want to tip, you don't get served a sit-down meal. Stiffing is a serious asshole move, and it doesn't contribute anything positive.
- jjuhl 8y ago
  Luckily I don't care one iota about that. And my bank balance likes me for it. You seem to be obsessed with how other people view your actions. I'm not. Simple as that.
pbiggar 8y ago
> "That's simply not my problem" That's an unfortunate attitude. I thought a lot like you, but when I realized the wage disparity here - I could afford to go eat at these fancy places, which my servers definitely could not - I chose to make it my problem. Other people's problems are not yours, but if you can choose to help (for example, if you can afford to help), you should.
- Udik 8y ago
  > Other people's problems are not yours, but if you can choose to help (for example, if you can afford to help), you should. The problem with this is that by tipping you simply move the problem of underpaid waiters to the next customer and to the next day. If everyone just stopped tipping, the tips would be included in the prices, everybody would be paying taxes, and the tipping issue would just cease to exist. The prices would stay more or less the same, as those are the prices that people are willing to pay, whether the tip is already included or not.
  - pbiggar 8y ago
    > If everyone just stopped tipping, the tips would be included in the prices, everybody would be paying taxes, and the tipping issue would just cease to exist. That is not my understanding of how the world works.
    - Udik 8y ago
      I agree that if the convention for the tip is a fixed percentage of the value of the purchase, then a waiter is basically guaranteed a share of the owner's revenue (revenue, not even profits!) At the same time, the vast majority of the jobs don't warrant tips- including all waitressing jobs outside the US- and this doesn't prevent workers from making a living wage out of them. So yes, I think that if people stopped tipping, owners would be forced to pay waiters more, and raise their prices accordingly, as everybody already does elsewhere. On the other end, it's true that waiters might end up making less money, as the revenue-sharing model might be unreasonably generous in some cases.
- Z-Widwil 8y ago
  What if you're not eating at fancy places? Now, I'm not suggesting they provide any less of a service, but I've eaten at taco carts that expect the same level of tipping (15-20%). These are places that the server definitely _could_ also eat at. If they are making the same amount of money (and possibly more), why is it still the customers responsibility to tip? At that point it isn't for the employee to make up for low wages. It is also usually paid prior to receiving your food, so it isn't for improved service. In this case the business could increase the base price and reject tips. If they directed that money to employees it would make budgeting easier for them and make no difference to the customers.
- Jach 8y ago
  That's not a very robust moral imperative and hinges on what you mean by "afford". It also ignores the case that some people don't want your help because it would cheapen the feeling of overcoming their problems on their own.
PascLeRasc 8y ago
How much time have you spent working food service?

lightbyte 8y ago

Those people should feel hurt by the managers not paying them enough not customers who chose not to pity pay them

happytoexplain 8y ago
I'm not sure it's constructive to accuse such a large category of people of not "feeling" the right way. It's not as if they're ignorant of the situation.

nraynaud 8y ago

well, when 100,000 Iraqis where killed for 9/11, I didn't see that much outrage. Those waiters are on an open job market. But I would just change the law: set a normal minimum wage and advertise tax included prices. And probably nudge as much as possible against the tip (I don't think it's bad enough that we need to make it a crime), but IMF has a dim view on the tip, it encourages corruption in all society.