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Anti-tax fervor seems like a scapegoat. The library wasn't producing enough value for the residents to care about continuing it and I don't blame them. This is

Anti-tax fervor seems like a scapegoat. The library wasn't producing enough value for the residents to care about continuing it and I don't blame them. This is how a democratic government is supposed to work - eventually things will converge to the median view. I've been voting against my libraries for as long as I've been able to vote. They're just not super valuable to me - they're not keeping kids out of trouble, in fact, it seems like kids go to the library to get into trouble - junkies routinely overdose in them. In the past 3 years, I've purchased at least 70 books. Each time I purchased a book, I checked to see whether I could get it from the library and they didn't have it. My county library system has 2,038 books of and about feminism and ~300 books of and about LGBT issues, but it has scarcely anything about conservative / right wing political philosophy or Abrahamic theology. It doesn't have a single book by Machiavelli, Hobbes, Evola, or Carl Schmitt. The library doesn't seem like a service that's open to everyone, it seems like a subsidiary for a specific viewpoint and agenda.

solarwind 8y ago
I'm not sure if most people know that the first libraries in America were privately funded subscription services, established by Benjamin Franklin. The first American lending library (Library Company of Philadelphia) was set up in 1731, where it operated for literally over 100 years as a private institution, and exists to this day as a nonprofit. The first taxpayer-funded public library was established 102 years later, in 1833 (New Hampshire Town Library). The optional market good served its clientele better than the non-optional public service for over 100 years. From the Revolutionary War to 1800, when the national government was in Philadelphia, the Library Company also served as the Library of Congress. Until the 1850s it was the largest public library in America. All of the books the Library Company acquired year by year over more than two and a half centuries are still on its shelves, along with many others added since it was transformed into a research library in the 1950s. In the 21st century, the Library Company serves as a resource for a variety of readers, from high school students to senior scholars, from novelists to film producers, and anyone else with an interest in our collections. https://librarycompany.org/about-lcp/ https://librarycompany.org/about-lcp/
- FiveSquared 8y ago
  Nah, the rich were only able to afford libraries. Now that they are "free (with taxes of course)," anyone can use it. You can use the same logic for school. You want schools to be paid? Okay, then the poor wouldn't be able to afford anything and they are stuck in a ever-looping hole of poverty.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - solarwind 8y ago
    According to this it is a non-profit corporation open to the public. A corporation is just a legal structure around ownership interest. The corporate shareholder structure allowed the shareholders to collectively share their books in the library which they provided to the public. Nothing about being exclusive to the rich. Income is a continuum. Schooling (not to be confused with education) at its essence is just a room with a teacher, pupils and study materials. It can be realistically attained by nearly all income levels but the extreme lowest.
IOT_Apprentice 8y ago
Sigh. I'm not quite sure how to respond to this, it comes across as selfish and staying in your ideological bubble. Libraries exist to serve a community. Young children aren't junkies and your assertion seems specious. Libraries aren't crack houses or heroin dens and using that as a reason to not support them is, well, far fetched. You can ask libraries to get books you are interested in. Further you can request the books you want via the ILL (Inter Library Loan) System from around the country or the world. You get the value out of the library that you put into it.
- alexanderwept 8y ago
  >You can ask libraries to get books you are interested in. I can also just go online and buy them and they show up at my front door. >You get the value out of the library that you put into it. My tax liability is such that that I put a lot of value into the library. I try to get use of the library, but I'm not going to inconvenience myself to use it. That it's easier for me to spend the $5-$10 to buy a book rather than deal with the ILL bologna is a sign that the library isn't really working for me. >it comes across as selfish and staying in your ideological bubble. And that's my prerogative. However, it's not like I'm hoarding my money and acting like a scrooge mcduck. Every dollar my library gets to keep the dust off of feminist "all men are bad" literature is a dollar that's not going to alleviating hunger or malaria. Isn't it selfish of the library to misuse the money that could be better spent on the less fortunate?
  - patmcc 8y ago
    >>Isn't it selfish of the library to misuse the money that could be better spent on the less fortunate? Gosh, I hope you don't have any vices or leisure pursuits.
    - tynpeddler 8y ago
      Private citizens don't have the same moral burdens that public enterprises do.
  - nkrisc 8y ago
spamizbad 8y ago
Unless you're in an exceptionally isolated part of the country, your county library is part of an inter library-loan system that can get those books for you. Requesting these books signals to librarians that they need to have those books on premise. I'm surprised they didn't have any of Hobbes or Machiavelli's works, as they tend to be utilized by a lot of classes. But for Evola or Carl Schmitt, I don't see that as anti-conservative in any sense as most conservatives/mainstream Republicans have largely embraced classic liberalism that Schmitt opposed. Evola is equally divorced from mainstream orthodoxy outside of the alt-right, which itself has little interest in its own philosophical underpinnings. His work is definitely worht a read if you want to understand the underpinnings of European neofascism but you're talking about pretty niche stuff here.
FiveSquared 8y ago
The library may not be valuable for you, but it is valuable for many. I see poor children using the computers. Even if a few learn programing and start their own companies instead of selling crack, then the library would pay for themselves. As fort the viewpoint, pressure your library to add more conservative stuff. As for security and junkies, why aren't you doing anything? Go volunteer yourself. Many junkies are actually desperate themselves. I actually read a lot of conservative stuff myself to ground myself. Why don't you?
- jimmaswell 8y ago
  It seems to me like the real value in a library these days is in the computers. Somewhere you can go to use one if you don't own one, or if you need to print or fax something. I'd be fine with all the books being digitized and libraries being more like just community cybercafes with no cost overhead for the skills of a librarian or keeping around books.
  - RandomInteger4 8y ago
    That's a horrible idea. Books are still extremely valuable for providing information in a distraction free medium. Books should not be underrated.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
TomK32 8y ago
> It doesn't have a single book by Machiavelli, Hobbes, Evola, or Carl Schmitt. Probably for the same reason you won't find Hitler's book in German libraries. Their ideas of immorality, absolutism, fascism and nazism simply lost against other, better ideas. Get over it.
- alexanderwept 8y ago
  If Carl Schmitt and Julius Evola lost, why did Barack Obama get away with using drones to execute American citizens? Why did the CIA and the Bush administration get away with using torture?
krapp 8y ago
> My county library system has 2,038 books of and about feminism and ~300 books of and about LGBT issues, but it has scarcely anything about conservative / right wing political philosophy or Abrahamic theology. Since it seems you counted every book in every library in your county and classified them according to left/right political ideology, and were able to come up with a precise number for books "of and about feminism," why aren't you also providing the same for " conservative / right wing political philosophy or Abrahamic theology?" Or for that matter, the books which fall into neither category? That's just bad statistics. >It doesn't have a single book by Machiavelli, Hobbes, Evola, or Carl Schmitt. Bullshit. I refuse to believe you counted ~2,338 items of "feminist" literature in a library system that doesn't contain at least one copy of The Prince. >The library doesn't seem like a service that's open to everyone, it seems like a subsidiary for a specific viewpoint and agenda. It does seem that's what you want us to think, sir or madam green account created specifically for this thread.
- alexanderwept 8y ago
  >Since it seems you counted every book in every library in your county and classified them according to left/right political ideology I didn't. I just queried the search engine. >Or for that matter, the books which fall into neither category? Because I don't really care about those books. I'm only interested in books about conservative / right wing political philosophy and/or Abrahamic theology. My library doesn't have many of those, however, it has a lot of books of ideologies that are hostile to the ones I'm sympathetic to. When I'm not accommodated in a public place, I tend to look around to see who is. I can see why leftists love libraries, they're welcome to that opinion. I'm just going to vote in a way that's contrary to continuing financial support for those libraries that don't accommodate myself or my interests.
  - krapp 8y ago
    >My library doesn't have many of those, however, it has a lot of books of ideologies that are hostile to the ones I'm sympathetic to. I have a difficult time believing you, partly because libraries don't actually serve a leftist or feminist agenda, and therefore the situation you describe is dubious, and partly because in another comment you mention "all men are bad feminist literature" which is a straw version of feminism promulgated by redpillers, incels and trolls. So please mention the county you live in so we can do our own searches and verify the feminist/liberal/anti-right wing agenda for ourselves. >I'm just going to vote in a way that's contrary to continuing financial support for those libraries that don't accommodate myself or my interests. Do what several commenters have suggested and ask them to get the material you want, or don't go there. Why do you feel libraries which don't "accomodate" you, personally, also don't deserve to serve the rest of the community?
thrmsforbfast 8y ago
To be frank, I simply don't believe you. What county do you live in?

solarwind 8y ago

I'm not sure if most people know that the first libraries in America were privately funded subscription services, established by Benjamin Franklin. The first American lending library (Library Company of Philadelphia) was set up in 1731, where it operated for literally over 100 years as a private institution, and exists to this day as a nonprofit. The first taxpayer-funded public library was established 102 years later, in 1833 (New Hampshire Town Library). The optional market good served its clientele better than the non-optional public service for over 100 years. From the Revolutionary War to 1800, when the national government was in Philadelphia, the Library Company also served as the Library of Congress. Until the 1850s it was the largest public library in America. All of the books the Library Company acquired year by year over more than two and a half centuries are still on its shelves, along with many others added since it was transformed into a research library in the 1950s. In the 21st century, the Library Company serves as a resource for a variety of readers, from high school students to senior scholars, from novelists to film producers, and anyone else with an interest in our collections. https://librarycompany.org/about-lcp/ https://librarycompany.org/about-lcp/

FiveSquared 8y ago
Nah, the rich were only able to afford libraries. Now that they are "free (with taxes of course)," anyone can use it. You can use the same logic for school. You want schools to be paid? Okay, then the poor wouldn't be able to afford anything and they are stuck in a ever-looping hole of poverty.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- solarwind 8y ago
  According to this it is a non-profit corporation open to the public. A corporation is just a legal structure around ownership interest. The corporate shareholder structure allowed the shareholders to collectively share their books in the library which they provided to the public. Nothing about being exclusive to the rich. Income is a continuum. Schooling (not to be confused with education) at its essence is just a room with a teacher, pupils and study materials. It can be realistically attained by nearly all income levels but the extreme lowest.

IOT_Apprentice 8y ago

Sigh. I'm not quite sure how to respond to this, it comes across as selfish and staying in your ideological bubble. Libraries exist to serve a community. Young children aren't junkies and your assertion seems specious. Libraries aren't crack houses or heroin dens and using that as a reason to not support them is, well, far fetched. You can ask libraries to get books you are interested in. Further you can request the books you want via the ILL (Inter Library Loan) System from around the country or the world. You get the value out of the library that you put into it.

alexanderwept 8y ago
>You can ask libraries to get books you are interested in. I can also just go online and buy them and they show up at my front door. >You get the value out of the library that you put into it. My tax liability is such that that I put a lot of value into the library. I try to get use of the library, but I'm not going to inconvenience myself to use it. That it's easier for me to spend the $5-$10 to buy a book rather than deal with the ILL bologna is a sign that the library isn't really working for me. >it comes across as selfish and staying in your ideological bubble. And that's my prerogative. However, it's not like I'm hoarding my money and acting like a scrooge mcduck. Every dollar my library gets to keep the dust off of feminist "all men are bad" literature is a dollar that's not going to alleviating hunger or malaria. Isn't it selfish of the library to misuse the money that could be better spent on the less fortunate?
- patmcc 8y ago
  >>Isn't it selfish of the library to misuse the money that could be better spent on the less fortunate? Gosh, I hope you don't have any vices or leisure pursuits.
  - tynpeddler 8y ago
    Private citizens don't have the same moral burdens that public enterprises do.
- nkrisc 8y ago

spamizbad 8y ago

Unless you're in an exceptionally isolated part of the country, your county library is part of an inter library-loan system that can get those books for you. Requesting these books signals to librarians that they need to have those books on premise. I'm surprised they didn't have any of Hobbes or Machiavelli's works, as they tend to be utilized by a lot of classes. But for Evola or Carl Schmitt, I don't see that as anti-conservative in any sense as most conservatives/mainstream Republicans have largely embraced classic liberalism that Schmitt opposed. Evola is equally divorced from mainstream orthodoxy outside of the alt-right, which itself has little interest in its own philosophical underpinnings. His work is definitely worht a read if you want to understand the underpinnings of European neofascism but you're talking about pretty niche stuff here.

FiveSquared 8y ago

The library may not be valuable for you, but it is valuable for many. I see poor children using the computers. Even if a few learn programing and start their own companies instead of selling crack, then the library would pay for themselves. As fort the viewpoint, pressure your library to add more conservative stuff. As for security and junkies, why aren't you doing anything? Go volunteer yourself. Many junkies are actually desperate themselves. I actually read a lot of conservative stuff myself to ground myself. Why don't you?

jimmaswell 8y ago
It seems to me like the real value in a library these days is in the computers. Somewhere you can go to use one if you don't own one, or if you need to print or fax something. I'd be fine with all the books being digitized and libraries being more like just community cybercafes with no cost overhead for the skills of a librarian or keeping around books.
- RandomInteger4 8y ago
  That's a horrible idea. Books are still extremely valuable for providing information in a distraction free medium. Books should not be underrated.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

TomK32 8y ago

> It doesn't have a single book by Machiavelli, Hobbes, Evola, or Carl Schmitt. Probably for the same reason you won't find Hitler's book in German libraries. Their ideas of immorality, absolutism, fascism and nazism simply lost against other, better ideas. Get over it.

alexanderwept 8y ago
If Carl Schmitt and Julius Evola lost, why did Barack Obama get away with using drones to execute American citizens? Why did the CIA and the Bush administration get away with using torture?

krapp 8y ago

> My county library system has 2,038 books of and about feminism and ~300 books of and about LGBT issues, but it has scarcely anything about conservative / right wing political philosophy or Abrahamic theology. Since it seems you counted every book in every library in your county and classified them according to left/right political ideology, and were able to come up with a precise number for books "of and about feminism," why aren't you also providing the same for " conservative / right wing political philosophy or Abrahamic theology?" Or for that matter, the books which fall into neither category? That's just bad statistics. >It doesn't have a single book by Machiavelli, Hobbes, Evola, or Carl Schmitt. Bullshit. I refuse to believe you counted ~2,338 items of "feminist" literature in a library system that doesn't contain at least one copy of The Prince. >The library doesn't seem like a service that's open to everyone, it seems like a subsidiary for a specific viewpoint and agenda. It does seem that's what you want us to think, sir or madam green account created specifically for this thread.

alexanderwept 8y ago
>Since it seems you counted every book in every library in your county and classified them according to left/right political ideology I didn't. I just queried the search engine. >Or for that matter, the books which fall into neither category? Because I don't really care about those books. I'm only interested in books about conservative / right wing political philosophy and/or Abrahamic theology. My library doesn't have many of those, however, it has a lot of books of ideologies that are hostile to the ones I'm sympathetic to. When I'm not accommodated in a public place, I tend to look around to see who is. I can see why leftists love libraries, they're welcome to that opinion. I'm just going to vote in a way that's contrary to continuing financial support for those libraries that don't accommodate myself or my interests.
- krapp 8y ago
  >My library doesn't have many of those, however, it has a lot of books of ideologies that are hostile to the ones I'm sympathetic to. I have a difficult time believing you, partly because libraries don't actually serve a leftist or feminist agenda, and therefore the situation you describe is dubious, and partly because in another comment you mention "all men are bad feminist literature" which is a straw version of feminism promulgated by redpillers, incels and trolls. So please mention the county you live in so we can do our own searches and verify the feminist/liberal/anti-right wing agenda for ourselves. >I'm just going to vote in a way that's contrary to continuing financial support for those libraries that don't accommodate myself or my interests. Do what several commenters have suggested and ask them to get the material you want, or don't go there. Why do you feel libraries which don't "accomodate" you, personally, also don't deserve to serve the rest of the community?

thrmsforbfast 8y ago

To be frank, I simply don't believe you. What county do you live in?