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Most governments and municipalities do a horrible job of articulating what their constituents taxes go towards. People see giant buckets and have a very hard ti

Most governments and municipalities do a horrible job of articulating what their constituents taxes go towards. People see giant buckets and have a very hard time converting that into what they see and use day to day.

wahern 8y ago
OTOH, broken out expenses often serve only as fodder for bikeshedding cynics who want to rail about big government mismanagement. For example, most people's notions about NASA's budgetary process begin and end with million dollar toilets. Overly specific knowledge about budgets can be poisonous.
- RandomInteger4 8y ago
  The million dollar toilet example doesn't sound like a broken out expense, but instead the exact opposite.
  - geggam 8y ago
    Its more likely a black ops type off the record funding was absorbed by the toilets.
tyingq 8y ago
It might be deliberate. Taxpayers would see how things like badly managed and/or lavish pensions eat up large parts of the budget.
- Retric 8y ago
  Pensions make up less of the budget than you might think. A rather large chunk of the budget is spent on Social Security or other programs have a low employee to cost ratio. The DoD for example spends quite a bit on defense contractors and has relatively few people who stay long enough to collect a pension.
  - tyingq 8y ago
    Think cities. Firefighter and police pensions.
    - Retric 8y ago
      Ahh, ok that really depends on the location. Firefighters are often not Social Security eligible and the government moves it's 6.25% SS contribution into a pension account. Combine that with employee contribution + investment interest and the net cost is fairly reasonable. Granted under funded pensions are often an issue, but that's a effectively loan the local governments have taken out. Their problem is debt not the upfront costs involved. PS: I tend to put all taxes into the same pool as I care less about the specifics than how much I get to keep after Social Security, Medicare, Federal, State, and freaking Local all take their cut.
- jonathankoren 8y ago
  There’s certainly a popular belief that government is mismanaged, but I’m not entirely sure it is, or at least is to the extent and in the areas that anti-tax advocates believe. Of course make government more effective and efficient. Very few would argue against that. But at some point, there’s just nothing to trim. However if one’s underlying assumption is all public spending is bad, then of course there’s more to cut, it’s just that the argument to justify the cut is disingenuous.
  - tyingq 8y ago
    The higher-level point was just that more detail will invite more scrutiny. I can certainly, though, cite examples of large cities with multibillion-dollar pensions that are close to being insolvent. Dallas is one of them.

wahern 8y ago

OTOH, broken out expenses often serve only as fodder for bikeshedding cynics who want to rail about big government mismanagement. For example, most people's notions about NASA's budgetary process begin and end with million dollar toilets. Overly specific knowledge about budgets can be poisonous.

RandomInteger4 8y ago
The million dollar toilet example doesn't sound like a broken out expense, but instead the exact opposite.
- geggam 8y ago
  Its more likely a black ops type off the record funding was absorbed by the toilets.

tyingq 8y ago

It might be deliberate. Taxpayers would see how things like badly managed and/or lavish pensions eat up large parts of the budget.

Retric 8y ago
Pensions make up less of the budget than you might think. A rather large chunk of the budget is spent on Social Security or other programs have a low employee to cost ratio. The DoD for example spends quite a bit on defense contractors and has relatively few people who stay long enough to collect a pension.
- tyingq 8y ago
  Think cities. Firefighter and police pensions.
  - Retric 8y ago
    Ahh, ok that really depends on the location. Firefighters are often not Social Security eligible and the government moves it's 6.25% SS contribution into a pension account. Combine that with employee contribution + investment interest and the net cost is fairly reasonable. Granted under funded pensions are often an issue, but that's a effectively loan the local governments have taken out. Their problem is debt not the upfront costs involved. PS: I tend to put all taxes into the same pool as I care less about the specifics than how much I get to keep after Social Security, Medicare, Federal, State, and freaking Local all take their cut.
jonathankoren 8y ago
There’s certainly a popular belief that government is mismanaged, but I’m not entirely sure it is, or at least is to the extent and in the areas that anti-tax advocates believe. Of course make government more effective and efficient. Very few would argue against that. But at some point, there’s just nothing to trim. However if one’s underlying assumption is all public spending is bad, then of course there’s more to cut, it’s just that the argument to justify the cut is disingenuous.
- tyingq 8y ago
  The higher-level point was just that more detail will invite more scrutiny. I can certainly, though, cite examples of large cities with multibillion-dollar pensions that are close to being insolvent. Dallas is one of them.