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I have been sent to the back of the queue to tick boxes on forms correctly by U.S. customs/border jobsworths and wondered why the experience has to be so patron

I have been sent to the back of the queue to tick boxes on forms correctly by U.S. customs/border jobsworths and wondered why the experience has to be so patronisingly humiliating. Once on a connecting flight so I wasn't even wanting to leave the airport. At the time I was working for a highly regarded company and going on to do some work for CBC in Toronto. I had flown in on business class and my smile, polite British English, white skin, smart clothes, clean passport and squeaky clean criminal record should have given me a free pass. I wasn't even carrying any highly unusual electronic hardware. And no I had not been a member of the 'communist party'. As I saw it there was just a problem of 'customer service'. The mentality of border guards should be to welcome guests to the country and not treat everyone as a criminal. As a non-U.S. person I am like a lot of people that just see the U.S. as not the place to want to go to. I know that most Americans lay on fantastic hospitality for visitors, welcoming you into their homes and looking out for you. But the hostile border guards obfuscate that. Canada is the far more preferable destination, whether you want to be stoned all day or not matters little really, the legalisation of weed sends a signal that Canada is the much more welcoming place to go. Tourism matters, I do wonder how much tourist trade the U.S. misses out on due to the negative perception the world has of the place.

bengale 8y ago
I travelled to the US once and it was incomparable to anywhere else I'd been in the world with regards to border control. I won't go back. I was even questioned by some shady American dude at the gate in London, was a weird experience.
Mediterraneo10 8y ago
> The mentality of border guards should be to welcome guests to the country... Perhaps they assume that if border guards establish a friendly relationship like that, it will only help bad actors distract the border guard from strictly enforcing the rules through jokes, small talk, etc. Still, if the USA wants that approach, it could still learn a lot from Israeli passport control. Whenever I have entered Israel I have been asked a lot of questions and the official had some reasonable suspicion about my plans and travel history, but this questioning was still done in a fairly respectful and professional way. The guard wasn’t glum and surly like American border agents.
tallanvor 8y ago
As a US citizen, I can honestly say that I have never experienced more unprofessional, rude, and outright hostile border control experiences than some of the ones I've experienced when reentering the US, and I doubt they treat non-citizens any better. Unfortunately in the US, the customs and border control people often seem to be the rejects who can't get a job anywhere else and relish lording their power over you.
- fernandotakai 8y ago
  i travel every year to the US for vacations and for US border patrol, it really depends on the state. i hated coming in through detroit or atlanta (one atlanta officer even tried to find me on facebook -- wtf?). but only had good experiences with new york city and chicago.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  > As a US citizen, I can honestly say that I have never experienced more unprofessional, rude, and outright hostile border control experiences than some of the ones I've experienced when reentering the US Everyone in the world says this about their own border agents! People always seem to be most critical of their own.
  - tallanvor 8y ago
    Do they, though? I've never heard anyone in the EU complain about border control.
pm90 8y ago
The Border Guards have absolutely no incentives to let you in and many good reasons to deny you entry on even the smallest reasons. Much like ICE and TSA, the whole organization is built entirely around gatekeeping/policing and will have people who will power trip the fuck out of their job without any kind of accountability whatsoever.
706f6f70 8y ago
> why the experience has to be so patronisingly humiliating. It's intended to be stressful because that gets people to crack. My advice is to not take it personally unless they really push the line. The stress is part of their procedure to make sure you are not lying.
- HarryHirsch 8y ago
  A border guard banging on for 5 minutes about "anchor babies" is part of the procedure?
- Theodores 8y ago
  Well, on that journey I had tickets for the connecting flight which was already boarding and the flight back, not to mention a paid for room in a posh hotel (in Canada) and plenty of accompanying documents from the main Canadian broadcaster. None of these documents were chewed by the dog and a sensible human being could use common sense to see that everything was legit. However, for someone with a gun on their belt, having got their education from Hollywood films and with a government that snitches on the world to lock up dark skinned people in Guantanamo I guess this jobsworth mentality makes sense to them. Upsetting people who have good money to spend means they don't come back. You don't want to be treated like garbage by imbeciles that insult your intelligence. It is taken personally. The U.S.A. is not that special, it is just full of entitled people that think they are special.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - grkvlt 8y ago
    If your worst border crossing experience ever is being sent to the back of a queue to fill in a form again, then i suspect you have no idea of what an actual bad immigration or customs interaction might involve.
- wonderwonder 8y ago
  I would argue that it is in no way a formal part of the process but rather a symptom of the culture in that industry. There is no written policy that says they have to be disrespectful. They dehumanize people and see themselves as superior, this is the result of essentially giving a group of people extreme power in much the same way as the Stanford prison experiment. They have very little limits on their power within 100 miles of the US border, essentially able to do as they please. If they overstep their bounds, their is generally no punishment. There is no reason they cant do the same job while treating everyone with respect. When you work with a group of people that see themselves as hammers, everyone else is a nail.
thrower123 8y ago
The biggest problem with US border patrol is that they rotate the agents around. I grew up going into Quebec 4 or 5 times a year, and when you were coming back home, you always knew when you got an agent that had been stationed on the Mexican border. They'd have their hand on their pistol the whole time, and badger and hassle you. This is at a small crossing where 99% of traffic is log trucks, locals visiting family, and Canadians crossing over to buy cheap gas at the US side general store. It's not a high threat area, but those agents that had been on the other border were habituated to the possibility of drugs and human trafficking, and that any interaction could go south into a deadly confrontation.
- tallanvor 8y ago
  "that any interaction could go south into a deadly confrontation" Except those situations are very rare. CBP's own website lists a total of 40 deaths over the past 15 years. I looked at over half of them, and very few were actually a "deadly confronatation" Some of the deaths: * One intern died after collapsing during a 1.5 mile run that was part of his final exam. * At least two died following from heart attacks * Another two are listed as having collapsed and died with no further cause. * Another was listed as heat related. * At least two people died in separate incidents when their vehicles hit large animals. * At least four people have died due to accidental drowning. * At least three died when their aircraft crashed. * At least one was hit by a drunk driver. * At least two killed when their vehicle was hit by a freight train. * At least two were killed during altercations while off duty. Most of the rest appear to be single vehicle crashes. It appears that less than 10 were actually shot, stabbed, or otherwise killed by people, and I didn't see a single listing of one happening at a border control station. These people want you to believe they have an incredibly dangerous job. While it's certainly more dangerous than working in IT, the truth is that law enforcement isn't even in the top 10 of dangerous jobs!
  - HarryHirsch 8y ago
    the truth is that law enforcement isn't even in the top 10 of dangerous jobs The police unions would have you believe that it was. Regarding people killed on the job, law enforcement is right there with construction work, but most deaths on the job are traffic deaths. Actual genuine targeted murders of police officers are rare, it's about 40/year. The number of civilians killed in police-involved shootings is a different magnitude altogether, over 1000/year.
moltar 8y ago
I’m with you. I’m a Canadian and I try to avoid crossing US border at all costs, even flying transit. I’ll pay more for a ticket to avoid layover in US. The experience is just so bad.
- amatecha 8y ago
  Yup, I fly direct just to avoid the security theatrics. It's just not worth it.
- CosmicShadow 8y ago
  Yeah, we get excited when we see great flight deals, but then realize they require a US stop over, so no longer valid for us to consider!
vkou 8y ago
> I have been sent to the back of the queue to tick boxes on forms correctly by U.S. customs/border jobsworths and wondered why the experience has to be so patronisingly humiliating. Because that's one way that police forces make it clear to you who is in charge. Also, because you have no recourse against people wielding absolute power over you.
CosmicShadow 8y ago
As Canadians, my wife and I refuse to travel to the US or take any flights that stopover in the US. We would love to go road tripping or get cheap flights to visit various places, but it's just off limits for us, possibly for many years, due to the ridiculousness of what is going on at the border and in the white house. We watch cheap flight deals pretty regularly and have noticed we are seeing a lot more cheap flights to the US than normal, so it makes us think that perhaps the US is starting to suffer on tourism, but it could just be our biases. As more people get fed up like us, tourism will wane, but I doubt it'll make a big enough dent anytime soon for any action to be taken, especially when it's spread across the entire US, so harder to see at once.

bengale 8y ago

I travelled to the US once and it was incomparable to anywhere else I'd been in the world with regards to border control. I won't go back. I was even questioned by some shady American dude at the gate in London, was a weird experience.

Mediterraneo10 8y ago

> The mentality of border guards should be to welcome guests to the country... Perhaps they assume that if border guards establish a friendly relationship like that, it will only help bad actors distract the border guard from strictly enforcing the rules through jokes, small talk, etc. Still, if the USA wants that approach, it could still learn a lot from Israeli passport control. Whenever I have entered Israel I have been asked a lot of questions and the official had some reasonable suspicion about my plans and travel history, but this questioning was still done in a fairly respectful and professional way. The guard wasn’t glum and surly like American border agents.

tallanvor 8y ago

As a US citizen, I can honestly say that I have never experienced more unprofessional, rude, and outright hostile border control experiences than some of the ones I've experienced when reentering the US, and I doubt they treat non-citizens any better. Unfortunately in the US, the customs and border control people often seem to be the rejects who can't get a job anywhere else and relish lording their power over you.

fernandotakai 8y ago
i travel every year to the US for vacations and for US border patrol, it really depends on the state. i hated coming in through detroit or atlanta (one atlanta officer even tried to find me on facebook -- wtf?). but only had good experiences with new york city and chicago.
chrisseaton 8y ago
> As a US citizen, I can honestly say that I have never experienced more unprofessional, rude, and outright hostile border control experiences than some of the ones I've experienced when reentering the US Everyone in the world says this about their own border agents! People always seem to be most critical of their own.
- tallanvor 8y ago
  Do they, though? I've never heard anyone in the EU complain about border control.

pm90 8y ago

The Border Guards have absolutely no incentives to let you in and many good reasons to deny you entry on even the smallest reasons. Much like ICE and TSA, the whole organization is built entirely around gatekeeping/policing and will have people who will power trip the fuck out of their job without any kind of accountability whatsoever.

706f6f70 8y ago

> why the experience has to be so patronisingly humiliating. It's intended to be stressful because that gets people to crack. My advice is to not take it personally unless they really push the line. The stress is part of their procedure to make sure you are not lying.

HarryHirsch 8y ago
A border guard banging on for 5 minutes about "anchor babies" is part of the procedure?
Theodores 8y ago
Well, on that journey I had tickets for the connecting flight which was already boarding and the flight back, not to mention a paid for room in a posh hotel (in Canada) and plenty of accompanying documents from the main Canadian broadcaster. None of these documents were chewed by the dog and a sensible human being could use common sense to see that everything was legit. However, for someone with a gun on their belt, having got their education from Hollywood films and with a government that snitches on the world to lock up dark skinned people in Guantanamo I guess this jobsworth mentality makes sense to them. Upsetting people who have good money to spend means they don't come back. You don't want to be treated like garbage by imbeciles that insult your intelligence. It is taken personally. The U.S.A. is not that special, it is just full of entitled people that think they are special.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- grkvlt 8y ago
  If your worst border crossing experience ever is being sent to the back of a queue to fill in a form again, then i suspect you have no idea of what an actual bad immigration or customs interaction might involve.
wonderwonder 8y ago
I would argue that it is in no way a formal part of the process but rather a symptom of the culture in that industry. There is no written policy that says they have to be disrespectful. They dehumanize people and see themselves as superior, this is the result of essentially giving a group of people extreme power in much the same way as the Stanford prison experiment. They have very little limits on their power within 100 miles of the US border, essentially able to do as they please. If they overstep their bounds, their is generally no punishment. There is no reason they cant do the same job while treating everyone with respect. When you work with a group of people that see themselves as hammers, everyone else is a nail.

thrower123 8y ago

The biggest problem with US border patrol is that they rotate the agents around. I grew up going into Quebec 4 or 5 times a year, and when you were coming back home, you always knew when you got an agent that had been stationed on the Mexican border. They'd have their hand on their pistol the whole time, and badger and hassle you. This is at a small crossing where 99% of traffic is log trucks, locals visiting family, and Canadians crossing over to buy cheap gas at the US side general store. It's not a high threat area, but those agents that had been on the other border were habituated to the possibility of drugs and human trafficking, and that any interaction could go south into a deadly confrontation.

tallanvor 8y ago
"that any interaction could go south into a deadly confrontation" Except those situations are very rare. CBP's own website lists a total of 40 deaths over the past 15 years. I looked at over half of them, and very few were actually a "deadly confronatation" Some of the deaths: * One intern died after collapsing during a 1.5 mile run that was part of his final exam. * At least two died following from heart attacks * Another two are listed as having collapsed and died with no further cause. * Another was listed as heat related. * At least two people died in separate incidents when their vehicles hit large animals. * At least four people have died due to accidental drowning. * At least three died when their aircraft crashed. * At least one was hit by a drunk driver. * At least two killed when their vehicle was hit by a freight train. * At least two were killed during altercations while off duty. Most of the rest appear to be single vehicle crashes. It appears that less than 10 were actually shot, stabbed, or otherwise killed by people, and I didn't see a single listing of one happening at a border control station. These people want you to believe they have an incredibly dangerous job. While it's certainly more dangerous than working in IT, the truth is that law enforcement isn't even in the top 10 of dangerous jobs!
- HarryHirsch 8y ago
  the truth is that law enforcement isn't even in the top 10 of dangerous jobs The police unions would have you believe that it was. Regarding people killed on the job, law enforcement is right there with construction work, but most deaths on the job are traffic deaths. Actual genuine targeted murders of police officers are rare, it's about 40/year. The number of civilians killed in police-involved shootings is a different magnitude altogether, over 1000/year.

moltar 8y ago

I’m with you. I’m a Canadian and I try to avoid crossing US border at all costs, even flying transit. I’ll pay more for a ticket to avoid layover in US. The experience is just so bad.

amatecha 8y ago
Yup, I fly direct just to avoid the security theatrics. It's just not worth it.
CosmicShadow 8y ago
Yeah, we get excited when we see great flight deals, but then realize they require a US stop over, so no longer valid for us to consider!

vkou 8y ago

> I have been sent to the back of the queue to tick boxes on forms correctly by U.S. customs/border jobsworths and wondered why the experience has to be so patronisingly humiliating. Because that's one way that police forces make it clear to you who is in charge. Also, because you have no recourse against people wielding absolute power over you.

CosmicShadow 8y ago

As Canadians, my wife and I refuse to travel to the US or take any flights that stopover in the US. We would love to go road tripping or get cheap flights to visit various places, but it's just off limits for us, possibly for many years, due to the ridiculousness of what is going on at the border and in the white house. We watch cheap flight deals pretty regularly and have noticed we are seeing a lot more cheap flights to the US than normal, so it makes us think that perhaps the US is starting to suffer on tourism, but it could just be our biases. As more people get fed up like us, tourism will wane, but I doubt it'll make a big enough dent anytime soon for any action to be taken, especially when it's spread across the entire US, so harder to see at once.