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Mega-Tunnels Dug by South American Megafauna (2017)
- tomkinstinch 8y agoA more detailed description is included in this publication from the author credited for the first photo: http://www.ufrgs.br/paleotocas/Frank_et_al_2012.pdf http://www.ufrgs.br/paleotocas/Frank_et_al_2012.pdf
- ufo 8y agoI'll take this opportunity to advertise one of my favourite science podcasts, Fronteiras da Ciência: http://www.ufrgs.br/frontdaciencia/ http://www.ufrgs.br/frontdaciencia/ It is in portuguese, but one of the older episodes from season 5 is a very fun and informative interview with prof Heinrich about these burrows.
- soneca 8y agoThanks for the recommendation! Added to my player
- pvaldes 8y agoHomo sapiens is technically part of the megafauna, so the human miners that most probably dug this tunnels looking for valuable raw matherials would fit in this description, yes.
- obituary_latte 8y agoDo you for some reason not believe the experts in the article? Or have an explanation for the claw marks?
- pvaldes 8y agoI'm not believing it because. 1) I'm not afraid of the experts. 2) They obviously are wrong in this case, as you can see if you take a look to the photos. 3) Yes, I have a better explanation for the marks. One that does not involve magical tetrapods digging in narrow spaces with unlimited degrees of rotation in the shoulder. An expert is somebody that has done any possible mistake in a field. They commit mistakes all the time. This is just part of the journey and nothing to be ashamed of.
- soneca 8y ago"They obviously are wrong in this case, as you can see if you take a look to the photos." I believe they might be wrong too, but using the term "obviously" based on a look to the photos of an article is just arrogant. No matter if you are right in the future about they being wrong.
- dkersten 8y agoI've also come to learn that many things that seem obvious to a layperson often turn out to be false. So just because something seems obvious to somebody or common sense seems to suggest something or their gut instinct says so, really doesn't make it true.
- puranjay 8y ago"X looks like Y, thus, it must be made by Y" - that's the kind of inane logic I see on so many YouTube conspiracy videos. It's absurd to assume that just because something looks like something to a layperson, an expert would see them in the same way. Not to mention that this line of logic has been used by everything from conspiracy nuts to eugenicists
- Uhhrrr 8y agoAnd also the original article.
- DonHopkins 8y agoSo you're saying that you know for a fact that Amilcar Adamy, a geologist with the Brazilian Geological Survey (known by its Portuguese acronym, CPRM), is actually a layperson? What evidence do you have that he was lying about his qualifications and actually is a layperson who has no idea what he's talking about? Are you an expert in spotting fraudulent researchers who lie about their qualifications in multiple magazine articles and peer reviewed scientific publications? What are your own qualifications in that field, and can you prove your accusations? Or are you doing exactly what you're baselessly accusing someone else of doing, without any evidence? Do you have an instinct for debunking fake science? Is his biography and all these research papers and articles he's published fake too? If it's not true, somebody sure went to quite a lot of effort to perpetrate this fraud... What do you think their motivations were? Perhaps you should report him? https://www.escavador.com/sobre/2015231/amilcar-adamy https://www.escavador.com/sobre/2015231/amilcar-adamy https://www.linkedin.com/in/amilcar-adamy-90b71b25/?originalSubdomain=br https://www.linkedin.com/in/amilcar-adamy-90b71b25/?original... https://nl.pinterest.com/gsarisoy/ https://nl.pinterest.com/gsarisoy/ https://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/36983/20170403/mysterious-megatunnels-in-south-america-were-dug-by-giant-sloths.htm https://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/36983/20170403/myst... https://www.beyondsciencetv.com/2017/07/05/hundreds-of-giant-mysterious-tunnels-discovered-in-brazil/ https://www.beyondsciencetv.com/2017/07/05/hundreds-of-giant... http://www.look4ward.co.uk/animals/giant-tunnels-in-south-america-dug-by-ancient-mega-sloths/ http://www.look4ward.co.uk/animals/giant-tunnels-in-south-am... https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/extinct-megafauna-dug-these-incredible-tunnels-in-brazil/ https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/extinct-megafa...
- werdnapk 8y agoWhat valuable raw materials would those be? I'm assuming you can deduce this from just the photos as well.
- pvaldes 8y ago> What valuable raw materials would those be? I'm assuming you can deduce this from just the photos as well. I can think in several reasonable possibilities to check for. I'm assuming that you are able also. I will not enter in that "If you are so gooood, show me that you know all" game. Lets focus in the facts of the problem, not in me, or in my "arrogance".
- close04 8y agoMaybe I misunderstood, your premise is that these were dug by humans looking for valuable materials but you are not willing to engage in the "here's evidence to support my claim" game? That's not a good way to ever be taken seriously but I guess you can tell that already.
- pvaldes 8y ago> What raw materials whould those be? My first guess where pure clay and maybe salt. After reading the article and seeing the "comb pattern" linked with a source of water, and the "seats" and the "reinforcement arcs" and the forked tunnels I would add also to this list some precious or semiprecious stones of aluvial origin filtered from the mud (would explain also the rounded section of some but not all parts of the mine). There is not need of an iron pick to dig in clay. It helps, but all you need is a wood stick with a fire-hardened point.
- ufo 8y agoMore reasons for a nonhanthopogenic explanation: Some of the smaller burrows (dug by armadillos) are too small to fit a human. These kind of burrows are only found in south america. There is no evidence of human presence (wall paintings, fireplace remains, etc). Except in some cases and even then only at the very entrance (suggesting that people found these later but never ventured in the dark parts) There is evidence of claw marks on the walls, but no evidence of human tool use (pick axes, etc) Some of the burrows are dug in sandstone.
- neom 8y agoAh the good ol' HN smackdown on blatant arrogance. Experienced it many times myself and love seeing it, good job community, keeps us honest!! :)
- jngreenlee 8y agoGroupthink is a feature not a bug?
- dsfyu404ed 8y agoOn Reddit it is. The jury is still out on HN.
- neom 8y agoIf you're insinuating that HN suffers from group think, I assure you if you spend some time going through the comments you'll find many healthy spirited debates. There's nothing inherently wrong with the OP, it's about how it was said, not what was said. From what I've seen, HN tries to be a friendly yet intellectually challenging place, and I personally really appreciate that spirit.
- ufo 8y agoThe pattern of "successive digging" suggests that these burrows were dug over a long period of time, by animais larger than humans
- BorisMelnik 8y agothat makes sense - I could see it almost as a daily task, families hunt for food, graze, and spend a few hours digging then sleep. really interesting stuff
- de_Selby 8y ago>Dating the burrows also remains guesswork at best—animals don’t dig holes after they go extinct. However, they had to have been dug at least 8,000 to 10,000 years ago, when South America’s giant ground sloths and armadillos vanished. Or, when humans came on the scene and 'vanished' them.
- Y_Y 8y agoIf only early man had worried about zoological diversity and the morality of eating giant sloth meat.
- de_Selby 8y agoIt probably had more to do with viewing them as a threat (which they were) than as food.
- GVIrish 8y agoWhether they viewed them as a threat or food, modern humans (i.e. humans with fully developed hunting skills and weapons) who encountered megafauna that weren't afraid of them frequently slaughtered them to the point of extinction.
- eikenberry 8y agoBet they were tasty.
- gadders 8y agoI don't know why, but this feels a lot more scarey than seeing dinosaur footprints. Definitely makes me feel more like "prey".
- BorisMelnik 8y agoelon musk needs to hire some of these paleoburrows to finish his jobs - but seriously this is so interesting. does anyone know if anyone has casually mapped these out? it would be scary to explore these, I imagine all types of animals / bears (maybe not as much in South america) use these caves as their homes.
- ncmncm 8y agoFunny how the article entirely ignores huge caves on Africa dug by elephants mining salt. They ate the tailings. Maybe there is only one such cave known, so somehow it doesn't count?