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A billion dollar business relying such a shallow dark-ui technique for it's main source of revenue. The state of marketing departments in companies must be a j

A billion dollar business relying such a shallow dark-ui technique for it's main source of revenue. The state of marketing departments in companies must be a joke if this is how Facebook and Twitter are milking them. I imagine billions of dollars are being wasted in companies with no return value in the name of "marketing". And if anyone ever thinks Facebook and Twitter are actual competition to Google in ad market they must be out of their minds.

cm2012 8y ago
I am a direct response marketer, and only manage ad campaigns that provably generate revenue. Over $10,000,000 spend across more than a dozen companies. I can tell you that for many products Facebook absolutely outperforms Google.
- murukesh_s 8y ago
  I too can support with anecdotal evidence for that (my wife). One of her habits is browsing Facebook ads and she end up actually buying stuff from those sites.
  - da02 8y ago
    What products has she bought?
    - murukesh_s 8y ago
      Mostly fashion related as those are something you don't search for but an impulse purchase. Fb is mostly like window shopping or street shopping - you have no idea what you want but you like something and take it. I on the other hand if I have to buy something will google it or go to amazon directly.
- cstejerean 8y ago
  I’m not surprised. Google shows me ads for things I’m searching for, but Facebook shows me ads for things I wouldn’t even know to look for. I can definitely see how one or the other would be better depending on the type of product.
  - Bartweiss 8y ago
    On the whole, Google shows me two types of ads: things I don't want, and things that are competing with non-ad links to the same product. I can understand why Google gets bidding wars over people searching for "vacuum cleaner" or "cheap web hosting", but for most other things I can't quite imagine the use case. I either don't want to buy something, or I know who I'm buying from. Facebook seems much better placed to show things like "hey, you liked this band and you live in this town, did you know they're coming next month?" On very rare occasions, FB actually manages to achieve the theoretical role of ads as "notifying people about mutually beneficial transactions". And when they don't, I can at least see that the ads are having effects like "making me aware of a consulting firm" that a marketer might value. Meanwhile, I've never seen a Google search ad I valued, and I don't know if I've ever seen an Ad Words ad I valued. (Actually, I've benefited from Youtube ads occasionally also. But only ever for learning about new-release music, movies, or games.)
  - kjprince 8y ago
    Search intent matters and FB + Google ads are shown in different contexts. Of course the FB vs Google comparison in aggregate is useful but performance varies across markets and also depends on the attribution model.
- artificial 8y ago
  $10m monthly? What type of products? For example I’m in Automotive and the inverse is true @ $4m/mo.
  - mijamo 8y ago
    Every product is different. When I worked in automotive radio and physical mails were the most efficient, because there is a huge market of rather old people. For the 25-40 segment facebook can be very powerful though.
    - da02 8y ago
      Any rough estimate of mails vs. response vs. buys?
- emilsedgh 8y ago
  For sure there are people who are careful with their spending and smart with their marketing. But there's been too many reports of bot activity, fake likes, fake followers in those platforms that I'm sure many companies and marketing departments fall for them. Not everyone does as good job as you Im sure. Google, as far as I know, was never caught in dark ui patterns or fake number reports to generate revenue. They don't seem to need it.
  - a_imho 8y ago
    Google, as far as I know, was never caught in dark ui patterns or fake number reports to generate revenue. They don't seem to need it. Autoplay videos with ads?
    - emilsedgh 8y ago
      Youtube's autoplay actually works for some people. They want to watch the next video many times. It's far different from let them click on this by mistake
      - ethbro 8y ago
        I assume parent was referring to... gets up and walks away, while youtube continues to autoplay
        lorenzobr 8y ago
        Surely though that's different from fake likes assuming the advertiser is aware of it. I feel like YouTube by now is more similar to TV advertising, you take in consideration that people could just have the tv on in the background while doing something else or going around the house. Unless you don't know what you are doing with your advertising budget of course.
        a_imho 8y ago
        No, the problem is exclusive to autoplay (in fact, I recall youtube adding some click through pause into videos, but I don't see them now). I'm no advertiser, but simply introducing autoplay into the mix is kinda fraud imo. With hindsight advertisers must be aware of fake likes and such too.
- sytelus 8y ago
  It would be more interesting to know actual proportions. I don’t believe FB or G will outperform other in all cases all the time.
  - cm2012 8y ago
    FB and G together make up about 85% of all new online marketing spend.
- justAnotherNET 8y ago
  Can confirm, for what it's worth.
sharkweek 8y ago
Eh... companies price this all into the spend. Honestly, especially in an auction style ad platform, a certain amount of fraud is tolerated as long as at the end of the day we spend $1 and get $1.20 back.
beerlord 8y ago
“Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half.”
jjeaff 8y ago
It seems self evident that Facebook (and to a much lesser degree, Twitter) are major competitors to Google in the ad market. It's not like TV where the money is spent and you have no way to measure the results. Many people are seeing results with Facebook and Instagram ads. So they are spending. Google AdWords is the king of selling you something you are looking for. But Facebook and Instagram are highly effective at selling you stuff you didn't know you wanted. Not to mention political and spend.

cm2012 8y ago

I am a direct response marketer, and only manage ad campaigns that provably generate revenue. Over $10,000,000 spend across more than a dozen companies. I can tell you that for many products Facebook absolutely outperforms Google.

murukesh_s 8y ago
I too can support with anecdotal evidence for that (my wife). One of her habits is browsing Facebook ads and she end up actually buying stuff from those sites.
- da02 8y ago
  What products has she bought?
  - murukesh_s 8y ago
    Mostly fashion related as those are something you don't search for but an impulse purchase. Fb is mostly like window shopping or street shopping - you have no idea what you want but you like something and take it. I on the other hand if I have to buy something will google it or go to amazon directly.
cstejerean 8y ago
I’m not surprised. Google shows me ads for things I’m searching for, but Facebook shows me ads for things I wouldn’t even know to look for. I can definitely see how one or the other would be better depending on the type of product.
- Bartweiss 8y ago
  On the whole, Google shows me two types of ads: things I don't want, and things that are competing with non-ad links to the same product. I can understand why Google gets bidding wars over people searching for "vacuum cleaner" or "cheap web hosting", but for most other things I can't quite imagine the use case. I either don't want to buy something, or I know who I'm buying from. Facebook seems much better placed to show things like "hey, you liked this band and you live in this town, did you know they're coming next month?" On very rare occasions, FB actually manages to achieve the theoretical role of ads as "notifying people about mutually beneficial transactions". And when they don't, I can at least see that the ads are having effects like "making me aware of a consulting firm" that a marketer might value. Meanwhile, I've never seen a Google search ad I valued, and I don't know if I've ever seen an Ad Words ad I valued. (Actually, I've benefited from Youtube ads occasionally also. But only ever for learning about new-release music, movies, or games.)
- kjprince 8y ago
  Search intent matters and FB + Google ads are shown in different contexts. Of course the FB vs Google comparison in aggregate is useful but performance varies across markets and also depends on the attribution model.
artificial 8y ago
$10m monthly? What type of products? For example I’m in Automotive and the inverse is true @ $4m/mo.
- mijamo 8y ago
  Every product is different. When I worked in automotive radio and physical mails were the most efficient, because there is a huge market of rather old people. For the 25-40 segment facebook can be very powerful though.
  - da02 8y ago
    Any rough estimate of mails vs. response vs. buys?
emilsedgh 8y ago
For sure there are people who are careful with their spending and smart with their marketing. But there's been too many reports of bot activity, fake likes, fake followers in those platforms that I'm sure many companies and marketing departments fall for them. Not everyone does as good job as you Im sure. Google, as far as I know, was never caught in dark ui patterns or fake number reports to generate revenue. They don't seem to need it.
- a_imho 8y ago
  Google, as far as I know, was never caught in dark ui patterns or fake number reports to generate revenue. They don't seem to need it. Autoplay videos with ads?
  - emilsedgh 8y ago
    Youtube's autoplay actually works for some people. They want to watch the next video many times. It's far different from let them click on this by mistake
    - ethbro 8y ago
      I assume parent was referring to... gets up and walks away, while youtube continues to autoplay
      - lorenzobr 8y ago
        Surely though that's different from fake likes assuming the advertiser is aware of it. I feel like YouTube by now is more similar to TV advertising, you take in consideration that people could just have the tv on in the background while doing something else or going around the house. Unless you don't know what you are doing with your advertising budget of course.
        a_imho 8y ago
        No, the problem is exclusive to autoplay (in fact, I recall youtube adding some click through pause into videos, but I don't see them now). I'm no advertiser, but simply introducing autoplay into the mix is kinda fraud imo. With hindsight advertisers must be aware of fake likes and such too.
sytelus 8y ago
It would be more interesting to know actual proportions. I don’t believe FB or G will outperform other in all cases all the time.
- cm2012 8y ago
  FB and G together make up about 85% of all new online marketing spend.
justAnotherNET 8y ago
Can confirm, for what it's worth.

sharkweek 8y ago

Eh... companies price this all into the spend. Honestly, especially in an auction style ad platform, a certain amount of fraud is tolerated as long as at the end of the day we spend $1 and get $1.20 back.

beerlord 8y ago

“Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half.”

jjeaff 8y ago

It seems self evident that Facebook (and to a much lesser degree, Twitter) are major competitors to Google in the ad market. It's not like TV where the money is spent and you have no way to measure the results. Many people are seeing results with Facebook and Instagram ads. So they are spending. Google AdWords is the king of selling you something you are looking for. But Facebook and Instagram are highly effective at selling you stuff you didn't know you wanted. Not to mention political and spend.