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> my daughter is three and LOVES to help cook. She fries eggs pretty well Maybe I'm over protective, but hot oil around a 3 year old sounds like a bad idea. I

by ux-app 8y ago

> my daughter is three and LOVES to help cook. She fries eggs pretty well Maybe I'm over protective, but hot oil around a 3 year old sounds like a bad idea. I get it that they can do it, but it only takes 1 accident to scar them for life and 3 year olds are super uncoordinated. I have been called a helicopter parent before though, so maybe it's me being a bit weird.

wincy 8y ago
So you’re right, it is a bit scary. We cook on low, with just a little bit of butter. I certainly wouldn’t deep fry ANYTHING with her around, and when I have the kitchen is a no go zone. To me it’s about calculating risk, and a small amount of ~175° with a closely supervised child is not that risky. I get some judgy looks on the playground for studiously ignoring my kid and letting her play for three hours and everyone else stays for maybe 15 minutes being super engaged with their kids before they get super bored and leave, so I guess I’m not really normal. I consider one of my goals to get my daughter to walk to the park alone at five, since that was the age I had agency to go wherever I wanted. I’m not super optimistic, I may end up moving to a small town to make that possible, if I can get a good remote position eventually.
- chrishynes 8y ago
  "studiously ignoring my kid"... haha you sound exactly like me. I've got a two year old so a bit behind you guys, but same exact philosophy. The anti-helecopter -- give kids just a smidge more responsibility than they can handle (rather than hovering), make sure they don't get seriously injured, but let them learn from the scrapes and bumps. It's crazy how fast they learn and how capable they get at such young ages.
- ux-app 8y ago
  >I consider one of my goals to get my daughter to walk to the park alone at five, since that was the age I had agency to go wherever I wanted. Are you maybe misremembering your age at the time? I have a 4.5 year old at home and there is no way that I think he will be ready to go the park a couple of streets away on his own. By not ready I mean, in no way capable of judging when to cross a street safely and may get lost on the way, especially if he gets distracted and absentmindedly wanders in an unfamiliar direction. There was a recent study [1] that showed that kids have a highly elevated risk of accident when crossing the road right up to the age of 14 (!! was surprised to read this). Some points from the research: - simulating traffic showed accident rates as high as eight per cent with six-year-olds - Even those aged 12 were hit by vehicles two per cent of the time - It was not until early adolescence that children crossed the road safely Just thought I'd point this out in case you were not aware of the research. Kudos for promoting self-reliance and independence though. I am a long way in the other direction where I do way too much to try and ensure my kid's safety. I know I need to ease up so that he can start to make his own mistakes. [1] https://now.uiowa.edu/2017/04/why-children-struggle-cross-busy-streets-safely https://now.uiowa.edu/2017/04/why-children-struggle-cross-bu...
  - tartoran 8y ago
    In Japan they send their kids shopping at 5-6. It's Super safe in Japan, but the point is kids are very fast learners and learn to be independent fairly easily if pushed or directed in that direction..
    - ux-app 8y ago
      I wonder if these kids need to cross any streets and what the accident rate there is. I'm assuming Japanese 6 year olds are developmentally very similar to western 6 year olds. So according to the research that I linked to above they have an 8% chance of getting hit by a car when crossing the road. Would you cross the road if you were hit by a car for every 12 times you crossed? > kids are very fast learners and learn to be independent fairly easily if pushed or directed in that direction.. An acceptable level of risk awareness can't be taught to kids under a certain age because their brain development is not yet at the level where they are capable of learning certain things. For example: do you think there is any level of training that you could give a 5 year old to safely handle a loaded gun? Do you think there is a level of training you could give a 5 year old to then leave them unsupervised with a gun? Crossing a street is no different. It's life and death. If you've ever spent any time around kids 6 and younger you will know that they have very intense tunnel vision and very poor situation awareness. It's not their fault. They literally don't yet have the brain development necessary for accurately predicting future events and predicting the consequences of their actions.
      - tartoran 8y ago
        I agree and wouldn't push my own kids for that type of activity, simply not safe here.. But as other people's comments, there are lots of ways to make kids responsible and independent even in the confines of your own home such as cooking, cleaning, other types of chores, etc
      - barry-cotter 8y ago
        I suggest you read David F. Lancy’s Anthropology of Childhood. If children were as stupid as you suggest none of them would make it through childhood. No parent can watch even one child all the time and it’s possible to kill your self getting out of bed. > “Perhaps the most persuasive evidence regarding the attitude of adults toward children acquiring culture through play – without the need for adult guidance – comes from widespread reports of parents’ indifference and even encouragement of toddlers playing with machetes and other sharp and dangerous tools (Howard 1970: 35). For example, from the Kwoma of Papua New Guinea: “I once saw Suw with the blade of a twelve-inch bush knife in his mouth and the adults present paid no attention to him” (Whiting 1941: 25). Aka mothers regret it when their infants cut themselves while playing with “knives but they don’t want to restrain their exploration and learning (Hewlett 2013: 65–66). The Aka provide scaled versions of items in their tool inventory to their very young children and enjoy observing (and, occasionally correcting) their practice strikes (Hewlett et al. 2011: 1175). Four-and-a-half-year-old Okinawan children readily peel the outer skin off a length of sugar cane with a sharp sickle. When a mother was asked how the child acquired this skill she was at a loss for a reply. “‘I don’t know! He must have watched us and learned himself by trying it out!’ she said” (Maretzki and Maretzki 1963: 511)”
- abalone 8y ago
  > I get some judgy looks on the playground for studiously ignoring my kid and letting her play for three hours... If you are watching your child for three hours on the playground then it is obvious you either do not have a regular job or only doing this on the weekends. Check your privilege before you lecture others on how to parent. Also the hot cooking with 3 year olds is idiotic and dangerous even if it’s “just with butter” (??).
  - hycaria 8y ago
    >or only doing this on the weekends. Problem being ?
    - abalone 8y ago
      Problem being they lectured that it’s “not hard” to occupy kids everyday.. not just on the weekends. Parenting is hard and takes lots of resources and tons of time every day optimally.
chrishynes 8y ago
Are you thinking of deep frying? Frying eggs doesn't require hot oil, just a non stick pan and maybe a dab of butter.
rout39574 8y ago
Keep in the back of your mind: the goal is to release competent independent agents into the world. Help them push their constraints all the time. You're _going_ to burn yourself cooking from time to time. Should you then never cook? :) Good luck!
- ux-app 8y ago
  > Should you then never cook? :) risk vs reward. Have you spent any time around a 3 year old? They are super uncoordinated at this age and can't take off a sock without falling on their butt. GP clarified that it was supervised cooking with low heat and without oil, so that sounds safe to me, but certainly wouldn't have any other pots with for example, water boiling around since they don't have the experience to avoid it and the results can end up catastrophic.
Jach 8y ago
Reportedly one of my first words was "hot!" after I stuck my hand on an electrical stove top burner that was on. I don't remember it. Scarred for life? What do you remember before age 4? Edit: ah, you meant physical scars.
- ux-app 8y ago
  >Scarred for life? What do you remember before age 4? A 2 year old in my wife's mother's group got 3rd degree burns from tipping a hot cup of tea on himself. Luckily it missed his face, but his neck and chest are now permanently scarred (and disfigured). The child required 6 months of physical therapy because the burn was down the neck and under the arm so movement was affected due to scar tissue. Any liquid over about 60 degrees C is a very real hazard for small child. It really depends on context. A closely supervised 3 year old "cooking" using very low heat without oil and without a boiling pot around? Yup that sounds ok.
rangibaby 8y ago
I think small accidents help kids learn. Splashing a bit of oil on yourself isn’t the end of the world for adults and I don’t think it is for my toddler either.
ConceptJunkie 8y ago
To be fair, she's frying eggs, not deep-frying them. I'm sure the parent in question is taking appropriate steps to keep her safe. Kids are more capable and resilient than we give them credit for. Give them a chance to excel.

by ux-app 8y ago

wincy 8y ago

So you’re right, it is a bit scary. We cook on low, with just a little bit of butter. I certainly wouldn’t deep fry ANYTHING with her around, and when I have the kitchen is a no go zone. To me it’s about calculating risk, and a small amount of ~175° with a closely supervised child is not that risky. I get some judgy looks on the playground for studiously ignoring my kid and letting her play for three hours and everyone else stays for maybe 15 minutes being super engaged with their kids before they get super bored and leave, so I guess I’m not really normal. I consider one of my goals to get my daughter to walk to the park alone at five, since that was the age I had agency to go wherever I wanted. I’m not super optimistic, I may end up moving to a small town to make that possible, if I can get a good remote position eventually.

chrishynes 8y ago
"studiously ignoring my kid"... haha you sound exactly like me. I've got a two year old so a bit behind you guys, but same exact philosophy. The anti-helecopter -- give kids just a smidge more responsibility than they can handle (rather than hovering), make sure they don't get seriously injured, but let them learn from the scrapes and bumps. It's crazy how fast they learn and how capable they get at such young ages.
ux-app 8y ago
>I consider one of my goals to get my daughter to walk to the park alone at five, since that was the age I had agency to go wherever I wanted. Are you maybe misremembering your age at the time? I have a 4.5 year old at home and there is no way that I think he will be ready to go the park a couple of streets away on his own. By not ready I mean, in no way capable of judging when to cross a street safely and may get lost on the way, especially if he gets distracted and absentmindedly wanders in an unfamiliar direction. There was a recent study [1] that showed that kids have a highly elevated risk of accident when crossing the road right up to the age of 14 (!! was surprised to read this). Some points from the research: - simulating traffic showed accident rates as high as eight per cent with six-year-olds - Even those aged 12 were hit by vehicles two per cent of the time - It was not until early adolescence that children crossed the road safely Just thought I'd point this out in case you were not aware of the research. Kudos for promoting self-reliance and independence though. I am a long way in the other direction where I do way too much to try and ensure my kid's safety. I know I need to ease up so that he can start to make his own mistakes. [1] https://now.uiowa.edu/2017/04/why-children-struggle-cross-busy-streets-safely https://now.uiowa.edu/2017/04/why-children-struggle-cross-bu...
- tartoran 8y ago
  In Japan they send their kids shopping at 5-6. It's Super safe in Japan, but the point is kids are very fast learners and learn to be independent fairly easily if pushed or directed in that direction..
  - ux-app 8y ago
    I wonder if these kids need to cross any streets and what the accident rate there is. I'm assuming Japanese 6 year olds are developmentally very similar to western 6 year olds. So according to the research that I linked to above they have an 8% chance of getting hit by a car when crossing the road. Would you cross the road if you were hit by a car for every 12 times you crossed? > kids are very fast learners and learn to be independent fairly easily if pushed or directed in that direction.. An acceptable level of risk awareness can't be taught to kids under a certain age because their brain development is not yet at the level where they are capable of learning certain things. For example: do you think there is any level of training that you could give a 5 year old to safely handle a loaded gun? Do you think there is a level of training you could give a 5 year old to then leave them unsupervised with a gun? Crossing a street is no different. It's life and death. If you've ever spent any time around kids 6 and younger you will know that they have very intense tunnel vision and very poor situation awareness. It's not their fault. They literally don't yet have the brain development necessary for accurately predicting future events and predicting the consequences of their actions.
    - tartoran 8y ago
      I agree and wouldn't push my own kids for that type of activity, simply not safe here.. But as other people's comments, there are lots of ways to make kids responsible and independent even in the confines of your own home such as cooking, cleaning, other types of chores, etc
    - barry-cotter 8y ago
      I suggest you read David F. Lancy’s Anthropology of Childhood. If children were as stupid as you suggest none of them would make it through childhood. No parent can watch even one child all the time and it’s possible to kill your self getting out of bed. > “Perhaps the most persuasive evidence regarding the attitude of adults toward children acquiring culture through play – without the need for adult guidance – comes from widespread reports of parents’ indifference and even encouragement of toddlers playing with machetes and other sharp and dangerous tools (Howard 1970: 35). For example, from the Kwoma of Papua New Guinea: “I once saw Suw with the blade of a twelve-inch bush knife in his mouth and the adults present paid no attention to him” (Whiting 1941: 25). Aka mothers regret it when their infants cut themselves while playing with “knives but they don’t want to restrain their exploration and learning (Hewlett 2013: 65–66). The Aka provide scaled versions of items in their tool inventory to their very young children and enjoy observing (and, occasionally correcting) their practice strikes (Hewlett et al. 2011: 1175). Four-and-a-half-year-old Okinawan children readily peel the outer skin off a length of sugar cane with a sharp sickle. When a mother was asked how the child acquired this skill she was at a loss for a reply. “‘I don’t know! He must have watched us and learned himself by trying it out!’ she said” (Maretzki and Maretzki 1963: 511)”
abalone 8y ago
> I get some judgy looks on the playground for studiously ignoring my kid and letting her play for three hours... If you are watching your child for three hours on the playground then it is obvious you either do not have a regular job or only doing this on the weekends. Check your privilege before you lecture others on how to parent. Also the hot cooking with 3 year olds is idiotic and dangerous even if it’s “just with butter” (??).
- hycaria 8y ago
  >or only doing this on the weekends. Problem being ?
  - abalone 8y ago
    Problem being they lectured that it’s “not hard” to occupy kids everyday.. not just on the weekends. Parenting is hard and takes lots of resources and tons of time every day optimally.

chrishynes 8y ago

Are you thinking of deep frying? Frying eggs doesn't require hot oil, just a non stick pan and maybe a dab of butter.

rout39574 8y ago

Keep in the back of your mind: the goal is to release competent independent agents into the world. Help them push their constraints all the time. You're _going_ to burn yourself cooking from time to time. Should you then never cook? :) Good luck!

ux-app 8y ago
> Should you then never cook? :) risk vs reward. Have you spent any time around a 3 year old? They are super uncoordinated at this age and can't take off a sock without falling on their butt. GP clarified that it was supervised cooking with low heat and without oil, so that sounds safe to me, but certainly wouldn't have any other pots with for example, water boiling around since they don't have the experience to avoid it and the results can end up catastrophic.

Jach 8y ago

Reportedly one of my first words was "hot!" after I stuck my hand on an electrical stove top burner that was on. I don't remember it. Scarred for life? What do you remember before age 4? Edit: ah, you meant physical scars.

ux-app 8y ago
>Scarred for life? What do you remember before age 4? A 2 year old in my wife's mother's group got 3rd degree burns from tipping a hot cup of tea on himself. Luckily it missed his face, but his neck and chest are now permanently scarred (and disfigured). The child required 6 months of physical therapy because the burn was down the neck and under the arm so movement was affected due to scar tissue. Any liquid over about 60 degrees C is a very real hazard for small child. It really depends on context. A closely supervised 3 year old "cooking" using very low heat without oil and without a boiling pot around? Yup that sounds ok.

rangibaby 8y ago

I think small accidents help kids learn. Splashing a bit of oil on yourself isn’t the end of the world for adults and I don’t think it is for my toddler either.

ConceptJunkie 8y ago

To be fair, she's frying eggs, not deep-frying them. I'm sure the parent in question is taking appropriate steps to keep her safe. Kids are more capable and resilient than we give them credit for. Give them a chance to excel.