4 ms·

> But nothing a company does it to the benefit of the employee This isn't a feature intrinsic to companies, but rather a relatively recent social norm. There a

> But nothing a company does it to the benefit of the employee This isn't a feature intrinsic to companies, but rather a relatively recent social norm. There are still a few companies that do look after their employees, and do things to the benefit of their employees. They aren't very common though, usually it's smaller (often family run) businesses, and often a physical trade rather than an office job.

joewee 8y ago
True, their are companies that have founding principles that are employee friendly, but once you have an official HR role, their job is the complete opposite. Similarly, corporate counsel is responsible to the corporate entity (are companies people?), even if that means recommending removal of the founder. A organization with employee friendly values has leadership willing to challenge HR and Legal, but that means a majority of the leadership has to be onboard. So yes, family owned businesses, tightly controlled/owned businesses probably fall into that category.
- rifung 8y ago
  > True, their are companies that have founding principles that are employee friendly, but once you have an official HR role, their job is the complete opposite. I really don't like or agree with this characterization at all. Sure part of their job is to prevent the company from being sued but part of their job is (usually) also keeping employees happy.
  - joewee 8y ago
    A company is made to benefit its shareholders. Sometimes employees are also the shareholders but this has historically not been the case. Historically, because of the focus on benefiting it’s owners above all else, companies have sometimes resorted to using slaves and child labor. The concept of employee-shareholders is a fairly recent invention. The concept of employee rights only gained traction in the USA during the industrial revolution. Agricultural cooperatives, might come close...
    - C1sc0cat 8y ago
      Worker coops is a better match, producer coops are rather different as its the farm owners that are members not all their workers.
  - CaptainZapp 8y ago
    I work for a global company. When I have an HR issue I call some call center located in Poland, where they open a ticket. The process is not different than any old tech support call. Managers have a dedicated line, which leads to a local HR contact. Do you see anything in this whole process designed to keep employees happy?
    - C1sc0cat 8y ago
      MM will be fun if some one in Poland with no idea of labour law in the UK or USA makes a mistake :-)
  - krapp 8y ago
    >but part of their job is (usually) also keeping employees happy. Because happy employees are less likely to be a legal liability, and happy employees are more productive and more compliant with company policy.
    - rifung 8y ago
      > happy employees are more productive and more compliant with company policy And also less likely to leave but why is that a problem? In the end all employees are only there to make the company money. I really don't see why HR is any better or worse than the engineering department. Everyone is just trying to make a living so I don't see any point in looking down on them for it.
      - krapp 8y ago
        People shouldn't look down on HR, however they often present themselves as the friendly, impartial intermediaries between employees and the company when they aren't. You should approach talking to them the way you would talking to the police: don't if you can avoid it, but otherwise, assume anything you say can and will be used against you if it's in the company's best interests to do so.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
" but rather a relatively recent social norm." Ask your great-grandfather working in factory, or a mine, or as a tenant farmer (basically 99% of all work) - how he was treated by 'today's standards'. Where I did my undergrad, the main office building was built by a logger baron who literally had strikers shot. It's almost universally better today. " usually it's smaller (often family run) businesses" - are usually lower paying and often less stable. It's really, really easy for a contractor to not get paid for a job, or to make a mistake costing him $$$ - and then to be in a position wherein he can't pay his workers the aloted amount. This is common. Any entity that provides fairly steady, predictable work and guaranteed pay is doing a good thing for the most part.
- neuralRiot 8y ago
  >Any entity that provides fairly steady, predictable work and guaranteed pay is doing a good thing for the most part. I'm not really sure about that, any big busines wouldn't hesitate to fire you and as many people needed to close the numbers or to cut your hours-wages for the same reason let's not talk about benefits, there's not "safe job" anymore.
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    " there's not "safe job" anymore." Most jobs are safe actually. First - government, which is a massive employer. Second - healthcare - generally low turnover, and a huge portion of the economy. Energy - parts are up and down, but anything closer to the core is very safe. Core jobs at any classic company. They are generally safe. Large layoffs are not common, and this idea that companies will drop huge numbers of people 'just to save a buck' is simply not true: most layoffs only happen during economic calamity, when the company is starting to face trouble. In decent times, firings is rare. Now factory wok, hourly workers, retail workers - that's a whole other thing. Remember that companies make money by expanding and hiring, not by laying off. CEO's are 100x more likely to want to 'grow' than 'shrink' and there's a lot of political cost with layoffs. Rubin's startup is flailing, that's why he's laying off, that's to be expected.
    - 8y ago

joewee 8y ago

True, their are companies that have founding principles that are employee friendly, but once you have an official HR role, their job is the complete opposite. Similarly, corporate counsel is responsible to the corporate entity (are companies people?), even if that means recommending removal of the founder. A organization with employee friendly values has leadership willing to challenge HR and Legal, but that means a majority of the leadership has to be onboard. So yes, family owned businesses, tightly controlled/owned businesses probably fall into that category.

rifung 8y ago
> True, their are companies that have founding principles that are employee friendly, but once you have an official HR role, their job is the complete opposite. I really don't like or agree with this characterization at all. Sure part of their job is to prevent the company from being sued but part of their job is (usually) also keeping employees happy.
- joewee 8y ago
  A company is made to benefit its shareholders. Sometimes employees are also the shareholders but this has historically not been the case. Historically, because of the focus on benefiting it’s owners above all else, companies have sometimes resorted to using slaves and child labor. The concept of employee-shareholders is a fairly recent invention. The concept of employee rights only gained traction in the USA during the industrial revolution. Agricultural cooperatives, might come close...
  - C1sc0cat 8y ago
    Worker coops is a better match, producer coops are rather different as its the farm owners that are members not all their workers.
- CaptainZapp 8y ago
  I work for a global company. When I have an HR issue I call some call center located in Poland, where they open a ticket. The process is not different than any old tech support call. Managers have a dedicated line, which leads to a local HR contact. Do you see anything in this whole process designed to keep employees happy?
  - C1sc0cat 8y ago
    MM will be fun if some one in Poland with no idea of labour law in the UK or USA makes a mistake :-)
- krapp 8y ago
  >but part of their job is (usually) also keeping employees happy. Because happy employees are less likely to be a legal liability, and happy employees are more productive and more compliant with company policy.
  - rifung 8y ago
    > happy employees are more productive and more compliant with company policy And also less likely to leave but why is that a problem? In the end all employees are only there to make the company money. I really don't see why HR is any better or worse than the engineering department. Everyone is just trying to make a living so I don't see any point in looking down on them for it.
    - krapp 8y ago
      People shouldn't look down on HR, however they often present themselves as the friendly, impartial intermediaries between employees and the company when they aren't. You should approach talking to them the way you would talking to the police: don't if you can avoid it, but otherwise, assume anything you say can and will be used against you if it's in the company's best interests to do so.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

" but rather a relatively recent social norm." Ask your great-grandfather working in factory, or a mine, or as a tenant farmer (basically 99% of all work) - how he was treated by 'today's standards'. Where I did my undergrad, the main office building was built by a logger baron who literally had strikers shot. It's almost universally better today. " usually it's smaller (often family run) businesses" - are usually lower paying and often less stable. It's really, really easy for a contractor to not get paid for a job, or to make a mistake costing him $$$ - and then to be in a position wherein he can't pay his workers the aloted amount. This is common. Any entity that provides fairly steady, predictable work and guaranteed pay is doing a good thing for the most part.

neuralRiot 8y ago
>Any entity that provides fairly steady, predictable work and guaranteed pay is doing a good thing for the most part. I'm not really sure about that, any big busines wouldn't hesitate to fire you and as many people needed to close the numbers or to cut your hours-wages for the same reason let's not talk about benefits, there's not "safe job" anymore.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  " there's not "safe job" anymore." Most jobs are safe actually. First - government, which is a massive employer. Second - healthcare - generally low turnover, and a huge portion of the economy. Energy - parts are up and down, but anything closer to the core is very safe. Core jobs at any classic company. They are generally safe. Large layoffs are not common, and this idea that companies will drop huge numbers of people 'just to save a buck' is simply not true: most layoffs only happen during economic calamity, when the company is starting to face trouble. In decent times, firings is rare. Now factory wok, hourly workers, retail workers - that's a whole other thing. Remember that companies make money by expanding and hiring, not by laying off. CEO's are 100x more likely to want to 'grow' than 'shrink' and there's a lot of political cost with layoffs. Rubin's startup is flailing, that's why he's laying off, that's to be expected.
  - 8y ago