5 ms·

Meanwhile, household debt is at it's all-time high, $13.3 trillion... surpassing its previous peak in 2008. https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/hhdc.html

by kevmo 8y ago

Meanwhile, household debt is at it's all-time high, $13.3 trillion... surpassing its previous peak in 2008. https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/hhdc.html https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/hhdc.html This article seems like fluff/propaganda.

paulpauper 8y ago
when ppl think of household debt, they think big screen TVs and other discretionary items, but it's actually mostly mortgages and student loans https://www.valuewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/US-Household-Debt-1.png https://www.valuewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/US-Hous...
- sxates 8y ago
  Cost of houses and education are both way up, so it would make sense. Does this stat get calibrated against inflation or wages?
- IMTDb 8y ago
  Which is even scarier. In case of default, discretionary items can be seize and sold to at least repay part of the debt (while decreasing quality of life). 2008 has shown what seizing houses leads to. Now think that there is nothing to seize for student debt loans. If you fail to get a good enough income using the degree you paid using debt, you are as hopeless as if you had used it all on hookers and cocaine. At least with discretionary items you have a big TV which holds some value.
  - tomjen3 8y ago
    Cars might hold some value, houses might hold more value over time, but TVs? Don't expect much. What we need is to make college debt discharable through bankruptcy, same as any other debt. Then the only people who can borrow are those likely to be able to pay it of, which nicely solves the problem of unplayable college debt (while reducing the interest students of medical, science, law etc have to pay, since more money will be chasing fewer students), for profit colleges and useless degrees. Does it mean some people won't be able to study their favourite subject? In general no[0], in college? Yes. [0]: Remember the " you dropped 150 grand on a fuckin' education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library!"? Today it is probably 15 USD on Beeminder, and you won't have a degree, but that degree is worthless in the first place, so overall huge win.
    - dreeves 8y ago
      Ha! Can we use that footnote in our marketing copy? :)
      - tomjen3 8y ago
        Sure
thrden 8y ago
I'm not quite sure how to parse that particular piece of data. It seems as though it may be nominal if we consider that the Household Debt-to GDP ratio is substantially decreased from 2008. Further, household debt service ratios have also decreased substantially (by roughly 30%). https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HDTGPDUSQ163N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HDTGPDUSQ163N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TDSP https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TDSP
brianmersenne 8y ago
The total level of household debt has grown, but - the ratio of debt to personal income, and - the ratio of debt to GDP has decreased steadily and significantly since the financial crisis. These ratios are now the lowest since 2002. Households owe more, but they are also making more money and creating more value.
- blazespin 8y ago
  Yep. Inflation. Stock market, movie revenue, cost of bread. It will always peak like this.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
anon49124 8y ago
Yup, it's fluff, like "Trump wins yhuge and bigly." A nice summary of all the important econ numbers: http://www.usdebtclock.org http://www.usdebtclock.org

by kevmo 8y ago

paulpauper 8y ago

when ppl think of household debt, they think big screen TVs and other discretionary items, but it's actually mostly mortgages and student loans https://www.valuewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/US-Household-Debt-1.png https://www.valuewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/US-Hous...

sxates 8y ago
Cost of houses and education are both way up, so it would make sense. Does this stat get calibrated against inflation or wages?
IMTDb 8y ago
Which is even scarier. In case of default, discretionary items can be seize and sold to at least repay part of the debt (while decreasing quality of life). 2008 has shown what seizing houses leads to. Now think that there is nothing to seize for student debt loans. If you fail to get a good enough income using the degree you paid using debt, you are as hopeless as if you had used it all on hookers and cocaine. At least with discretionary items you have a big TV which holds some value.
- tomjen3 8y ago
  Cars might hold some value, houses might hold more value over time, but TVs? Don't expect much. What we need is to make college debt discharable through bankruptcy, same as any other debt. Then the only people who can borrow are those likely to be able to pay it of, which nicely solves the problem of unplayable college debt (while reducing the interest students of medical, science, law etc have to pay, since more money will be chasing fewer students), for profit colleges and useless degrees. Does it mean some people won't be able to study their favourite subject? In general no[0], in college? Yes. [0]: Remember the " you dropped 150 grand on a fuckin' education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library!"? Today it is probably 15 USD on Beeminder, and you won't have a degree, but that degree is worthless in the first place, so overall huge win.
  - dreeves 8y ago
    Ha! Can we use that footnote in our marketing copy? :)
    - tomjen3 8y ago
      Sure

thrden 8y ago

I'm not quite sure how to parse that particular piece of data. It seems as though it may be nominal if we consider that the Household Debt-to GDP ratio is substantially decreased from 2008. Further, household debt service ratios have also decreased substantially (by roughly 30%). https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HDTGPDUSQ163N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HDTGPDUSQ163N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TDSP https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TDSP

brianmersenne 8y ago

The total level of household debt has grown, but - the ratio of debt to personal income, and - the ratio of debt to GDP has decreased steadily and significantly since the financial crisis. These ratios are now the lowest since 2002. Households owe more, but they are also making more money and creating more value.

blazespin 8y ago
Yep. Inflation. Stock market, movie revenue, cost of bread. It will always peak like this.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

anon49124 8y ago

Yup, it's fluff, like "Trump wins yhuge and bigly." A nice summary of all the important econ numbers: http://www.usdebtclock.org http://www.usdebtclock.org