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Try Hosking's The First Socialist Society: A History of the Soviet Union from Within. Mind, it's just an intro. And its not a happy book. But one doesn't need

Try Hosking's The First Socialist Society: A History of the Soviet Union from Within. Mind, it's just an intro. And its not a happy book. But one doesn't need to exaggerate or parrot shallow condemnations of a part of the world that had its triumphs as well as its tragedies.

CamperBob2 8y ago
Cool, I haven't seen that one. I'll look at some reviews. It's easy to allow biases to creep into one's thinking when the only books on socialist history one's read were written by people like Bo and Solzhenitsyn. Those were "histories written from within," too, but they neglected the bright spots like pioneering work in certain scientific and technological disciplines. My understanding (and, yes, my bias) is that those few bright spots in Soviet life weren't worth it. We might disagree if, for instance, Hosking extols the fact that the Soviets were first to feed, clothe and house their entire population, because I don't agree that housing a large fraction of them in prison camps while exiling another is a valid solution to that particular problem. As an additional example, my thinking is someone, presumably the US, would have been first to launch an artificial satellite in the absence of Sputnik. Someone, again presumably the US, would have educated and encouraged the first female astronaut. It's true that we missed out on those 'firsts'... but how many opportunities did the Soviets miss because the prerequisite researchers and teachers died in a gulag somewhere for purely-ideological reasons? Am I overlooking any other instances of triumph mentioned by Hosking?
- danharaj 8y ago
  > Solzhenitsyn Was not a historian and his writings are valuable for his experiences and their literary content but not as an account of the entire Gulag system. That's why I told you (though I should have politely asked; it's just exasperating) to read a history book. > Am I overlooking any other instances of triumph mentioned by Hosking? Please read a history book!
  - CamperBob2 8y ago
    Thanks for your input, sounds like we're done here.

CamperBob2 8y ago

Cool, I haven't seen that one. I'll look at some reviews. It's easy to allow biases to creep into one's thinking when the only books on socialist history one's read were written by people like Bo and Solzhenitsyn. Those were "histories written from within," too, but they neglected the bright spots like pioneering work in certain scientific and technological disciplines. My understanding (and, yes, my bias) is that those few bright spots in Soviet life weren't worth it. We might disagree if, for instance, Hosking extols the fact that the Soviets were first to feed, clothe and house their entire population, because I don't agree that housing a large fraction of them in prison camps while exiling another is a valid solution to that particular problem. As an additional example, my thinking is someone, presumably the US, would have been first to launch an artificial satellite in the absence of Sputnik. Someone, again presumably the US, would have educated and encouraged the first female astronaut. It's true that we missed out on those 'firsts'... but how many opportunities did the Soviets miss because the prerequisite researchers and teachers died in a gulag somewhere for purely-ideological reasons? Am I overlooking any other instances of triumph mentioned by Hosking?

danharaj 8y ago
> Solzhenitsyn Was not a historian and his writings are valuable for his experiences and their literary content but not as an account of the entire Gulag system. That's why I told you (though I should have politely asked; it's just exasperating) to read a history book. > Am I overlooking any other instances of triumph mentioned by Hosking? Please read a history book!
- CamperBob2 8y ago
  Thanks for your input, sounds like we're done here.