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It's actually quite difficult to lose your US citizenship these days. Per U.S. Code § 1481, it's not sufficient to merely serve in a foreign military, you need

It's actually quite difficult to lose your US citizenship these days. Per U.S. Code § 1481, it's not sufficient to merely serve in a foreign military, you need to do it "with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality". What's more, per (b) there's an explicit presumption of what amounts to innocent until proven guilty: the onus is on whoever is claiming you've lost your citizenship to prove that you voluntarily intended to lose it, which is really quite hard to do unless you renounced in front of a US consular officer. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1481 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1481

fapjacks 8y ago
Actually, swearing fealty to another nation's military by swearing in, in fact, counts as intending to relinquish your US nationality. I have had this discussion with people working in multiple different American consulates, because as I mentioned, I was offered a position teaching at a European infantry school which would have required me to join their military.
- jpatokal 8y ago
  Nope. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relinquishment_of_United_States_nationality#Serving_in_a_foreign_military https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relinquishment_of_United_State... Or if you want an authoritative source: https://fam.state.gov/FAM/07FAM/07FAM1270.html https://fam.state.gov/FAM/07FAM/07FAM1270.html
  - fapjacks 8y ago
    You're not a citizenship lawyer, I'm assuming, and you're just grabbing these links from (bad) cursory google searching, because this must be some kind of joke? Are you actually reading the links you are posting? I think you haven't actually read them. Both of these links support my assertions. Also, you obviously have zero experience with immigration and citizenship law, and how it works at the consular level. From your very own links: "... provides for relinquishment through 'entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state' if either the person serves 'as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer' ... " I suppose then you have no real-world experience with any of this (or anything like this) and so cannot otherwise provide anything to support your position. So let me help define some terms for you. A "commissioned or non-commissioned officer" -- what I called "an NCO or above" -- is essentially anyone higher ranking than a common soldier. If you serve in this position, the consular officer you report this to gets to make the call on whether or not this constitutes relinquishing citizenship and every consulate I talked to said it would mean relinquishing citizenship. This is the power of the consulate: They make decisions with recommendations from the government. Since you don't have any experience with this first-hand, and you don't understand the implication, that means you won't be afforded the opportunity to challenge or appeal the decision, since you won't have ready access to the American court system.
    - jpatokal 8y ago
      Not a lawyer (are you?), but I do maintain a keen interest in nationality law. Italics mine: "...the Department of State adopted the administrative presumption found in 22 CFR 50.40 that a U.S. citizen/noncitizen national intends to retain U.S. nationality when he or she commits certain expatriating acts. That administrative presumption is in the process of being revised in 22 CFR Part 50, and includes when a U.S. citizen serves as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer of a foreign state, not engaged in hostilities against the United States (INA 349(a)(3), 8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(3))." In other words, even if you serve as a officer or NCO of a foreign country, the Department of State will not consider this an expatriating act causing loss of citizenship, unless that country is at war with the US. See also 7 FAM 1222 for more details of the "administrative presumption" in question: "...in 1990 the Department adopted the administrative presumption found in 22 CFR 50.40 that a U.S. citizen/noncitizen national intends to retain U.S. nationality when he or she commits certain expatriating acts. That administrative presumption is in the process of being revised in 22 CFR Part 50, and includes when a U.S. citizen: (3) Serves in the armed services of a foreign state as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer of a foreign state, not engaged in hostilities against the United States (INA 349(a)(3))" https://fam.state.gov/fam/07fam/07fam1220.html#M1222 https://fam.state.gov/fam/07fam/07fam1220.html#M1222

fapjacks 8y ago

Actually, swearing fealty to another nation's military by swearing in, in fact, counts as intending to relinquish your US nationality. I have had this discussion with people working in multiple different American consulates, because as I mentioned, I was offered a position teaching at a European infantry school which would have required me to join their military.

jpatokal 8y ago
Nope. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relinquishment_of_United_States_nationality#Serving_in_a_foreign_military https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relinquishment_of_United_State... Or if you want an authoritative source: https://fam.state.gov/FAM/07FAM/07FAM1270.html https://fam.state.gov/FAM/07FAM/07FAM1270.html
- fapjacks 8y ago
  You're not a citizenship lawyer, I'm assuming, and you're just grabbing these links from (bad) cursory google searching, because this must be some kind of joke? Are you actually reading the links you are posting? I think you haven't actually read them. Both of these links support my assertions. Also, you obviously have zero experience with immigration and citizenship law, and how it works at the consular level. From your very own links: "... provides for relinquishment through 'entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state' if either the person serves 'as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer' ... " I suppose then you have no real-world experience with any of this (or anything like this) and so cannot otherwise provide anything to support your position. So let me help define some terms for you. A "commissioned or non-commissioned officer" -- what I called "an NCO or above" -- is essentially anyone higher ranking than a common soldier. If you serve in this position, the consular officer you report this to gets to make the call on whether or not this constitutes relinquishing citizenship and every consulate I talked to said it would mean relinquishing citizenship. This is the power of the consulate: They make decisions with recommendations from the government. Since you don't have any experience with this first-hand, and you don't understand the implication, that means you won't be afforded the opportunity to challenge or appeal the decision, since you won't have ready access to the American court system.
  - jpatokal 8y ago
    Not a lawyer (are you?), but I do maintain a keen interest in nationality law. Italics mine: "...the Department of State adopted the administrative presumption found in 22 CFR 50.40 that a U.S. citizen/noncitizen national intends to retain U.S. nationality when he or she commits certain expatriating acts. That administrative presumption is in the process of being revised in 22 CFR Part 50, and includes when a U.S. citizen serves as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer of a foreign state, not engaged in hostilities against the United States (INA 349(a)(3), 8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(3))." In other words, even if you serve as a officer or NCO of a foreign country, the Department of State will not consider this an expatriating act causing loss of citizenship, unless that country is at war with the US. See also 7 FAM 1222 for more details of the "administrative presumption" in question: "...in 1990 the Department adopted the administrative presumption found in 22 CFR 50.40 that a U.S. citizen/noncitizen national intends to retain U.S. nationality when he or she commits certain expatriating acts. That administrative presumption is in the process of being revised in 22 CFR Part 50, and includes when a U.S. citizen: (3) Serves in the armed services of a foreign state as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer of a foreign state, not engaged in hostilities against the United States (INA 349(a)(3))" https://fam.state.gov/fam/07fam/07fam1220.html#M1222 https://fam.state.gov/fam/07fam/07fam1220.html#M1222