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I'm a Ring customer. The Ring Portal is optional and opt-in. People want this. This is similar but not the same as Yc's Flock https://www.flocksafety.com/ https

I'm a Ring customer. The Ring Portal is optional and opt-in. People want this. This is similar but not the same as Yc's Flock https://www.flocksafety.com/ https://www.flocksafety.com/ but it doesn't require a home owner's association to set up and it's inexpensive. (Flock focuses on storing license plates.) Stuff like this helps police do something about robberies and burglaries. It's harder to ignore and file away when there's video evidence. Megapixel IP cameras are getting cheaper and cheaper every day. We already live in a mass surveillance society with microphones and cameras in almost all of our rooms, with some people even installing Echos in their bathrooms. Instead of bad Big Brother, we get helpful Little Sister (Alexa, Siri, Kortana, ...). imo The only real way to completely escape it, is to avoid technology and live outside of large metros; away from civilization

kakarot 8y ago
> The only real way to completely escape it, is to avoid technology and live outside of large metros; away from civilization This is an incredibly subservient, defeatist attitude. I do not allow devices like Alexa into my home. I do not own a smart TV. Besides studio recording equipment, the only microphone in my house is on my phone. If I have my own cameras, and a burglary takes place, I will share that part of the video with the local police. Letting them just hook in is positively insane. Saying it's OK to let Big Brother into my house on the basis of fear and because Little Sister is already there is not only completely irrational, but cowardly as well. As the saying goes, "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."
- chaostheory 8y ago
  > This is an incredibly subservient, defeatist attitude. It's reality if you use a smart phone or own a tablet, or are around others that do. Do your friends and family own one? Do you not own and use a smart phone? You know the device that tracks your location and pushes your data to the cloud. Pretending that doesn't exist is just another instance of cognitive dissonance. Besides what happens when people take a picture of you? They post it to the cloud along with datetime and location data, and even names. A lot of people who value convenience above all do not realize what they are trading it for. Many of these people don't even realize that's what they value most. It's hard not to be in that category if you use almost any kind of cloud connected service. I'm only making blissfully ignorant people aware of it. Maybe you should reexamine the digital aspect of your own life before strongly judging me. > I do not allow devices like Alexa into my home. What about Siri, Google, or Kortana? Siri is on both iPhones and Macs now. Kortana is on every Win 10 machine. Google Assistant / Ok Google is on Chrome OS and Android. Do you own any IoT device? Even if they don't have a mic or camera, they can still track you and your habits. > "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security." I'm not sure how I've traded my liberty on this one. It's not like I voted for a Patriot Act, where I don't have a choice on what I'm willing to share. > Letting them just hook in is positively insane. If I have my own cameras, and a burglary takes place, I will share that part of the video with the local police. They don't "hook in". It's just NextDoor for Ring owners where it's easier to share video with other Ring owners and now police. You CAN pick and choose what you want to share on Ring Neighborhood. That's how it works. Again no one is forced to even join Ring Neighborhood and you pick and choose what you want to share. Most importantly, even after you join - you can opt out at anytime. People now have a better chance of getting police to deal with people who steal their packages.
reaperducer 8y ago
I'm a Ring customer. The Ring Portal is optional and opt-in. I'm not a Ring owner, but several of my neighbors are. Two have told me that they have been pressured by police officers — in person — to join some kind of surveillance program. I'm not sure if it's this one, or something else. I also don't know how the cops found out that they had Ring devices, but the local PD advocates for it heavily on my neighborhood's Nextdoor group.
- chaostheory 8y ago
  Were they forced to join? Was it compulsory? You do know even after you join, you choose what clips to share right?
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    All I know is that they were creeped out that the police asked them directly. I didn't ask if they signed up or not. But the average person isn't some internet pretend lawyer, and will go along with anything someone with a badge says. Just the request is intimidation enough for most people. even after you join, you choose what clips to share right? You choose what you want to voluntarily share. But since the videos are on Ring's server, when the homeowner says "no," the courts say, "yes."
    - ragequitta 8y ago
      If the courts are saying yes there has to be a justifiable reason. A crime has to have happened. It isn't the 'if you don't have anything to hide...' argument at that point, it's 'if you don't have a crime to hide'. That said I'm avoiding such technology as long as possible for other reasons. I say as I type this on my phone with a camera and microphone pointed at me.
    - chaostheory 8y ago
      > You choose what you want to voluntarily share. But since the videos are on Ring's server, when the homeowner says "no," the courts say, "yes." 1. If this is true, then it applies to all data in the cloud, including stuff everyone already stores from their smartphone. Are you going to stop using your smart phone? Are you going to stop using Waze and online maps? Do you maintain your own personal email server? Do you use IM? Law enforcement would also have to make a formal request for the data. They don’t have instant access to it. 2. Again, this is completely opt-in and you can leave when you want. 3. To keep your video clips longer than a few hours, you need to pay for a Ring subscription. Again this is optional. 4. no one is forced to buy Ring devices 5. Mass surveillance has been here for years now. It doesn’t matter if you use Facebook or not. As long as your friends, family, and coworkers use it; they will have data on you. Is it possible to avoid? Of course but it would require such as drastic change in life that it would be impractical for most techies

kakarot 8y ago

> The only real way to completely escape it, is to avoid technology and live outside of large metros; away from civilization This is an incredibly subservient, defeatist attitude. I do not allow devices like Alexa into my home. I do not own a smart TV. Besides studio recording equipment, the only microphone in my house is on my phone. If I have my own cameras, and a burglary takes place, I will share that part of the video with the local police. Letting them just hook in is positively insane. Saying it's OK to let Big Brother into my house on the basis of fear and because Little Sister is already there is not only completely irrational, but cowardly as well. As the saying goes, "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."

chaostheory 8y ago
> This is an incredibly subservient, defeatist attitude. It's reality if you use a smart phone or own a tablet, or are around others that do. Do your friends and family own one? Do you not own and use a smart phone? You know the device that tracks your location and pushes your data to the cloud. Pretending that doesn't exist is just another instance of cognitive dissonance. Besides what happens when people take a picture of you? They post it to the cloud along with datetime and location data, and even names. A lot of people who value convenience above all do not realize what they are trading it for. Many of these people don't even realize that's what they value most. It's hard not to be in that category if you use almost any kind of cloud connected service. I'm only making blissfully ignorant people aware of it. Maybe you should reexamine the digital aspect of your own life before strongly judging me. > I do not allow devices like Alexa into my home. What about Siri, Google, or Kortana? Siri is on both iPhones and Macs now. Kortana is on every Win 10 machine. Google Assistant / Ok Google is on Chrome OS and Android. Do you own any IoT device? Even if they don't have a mic or camera, they can still track you and your habits. > "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security." I'm not sure how I've traded my liberty on this one. It's not like I voted for a Patriot Act, where I don't have a choice on what I'm willing to share. > Letting them just hook in is positively insane. If I have my own cameras, and a burglary takes place, I will share that part of the video with the local police. They don't "hook in". It's just NextDoor for Ring owners where it's easier to share video with other Ring owners and now police. You CAN pick and choose what you want to share on Ring Neighborhood. That's how it works. Again no one is forced to even join Ring Neighborhood and you pick and choose what you want to share. Most importantly, even after you join - you can opt out at anytime. People now have a better chance of getting police to deal with people who steal their packages.

reaperducer 8y ago

I'm a Ring customer. The Ring Portal is optional and opt-in. I'm not a Ring owner, but several of my neighbors are. Two have told me that they have been pressured by police officers — in person — to join some kind of surveillance program. I'm not sure if it's this one, or something else. I also don't know how the cops found out that they had Ring devices, but the local PD advocates for it heavily on my neighborhood's Nextdoor group.

chaostheory 8y ago
Were they forced to join? Was it compulsory? You do know even after you join, you choose what clips to share right?
- reaperducer 8y ago
  All I know is that they were creeped out that the police asked them directly. I didn't ask if they signed up or not. But the average person isn't some internet pretend lawyer, and will go along with anything someone with a badge says. Just the request is intimidation enough for most people. even after you join, you choose what clips to share right? You choose what you want to voluntarily share. But since the videos are on Ring's server, when the homeowner says "no," the courts say, "yes."
  - ragequitta 8y ago
    If the courts are saying yes there has to be a justifiable reason. A crime has to have happened. It isn't the 'if you don't have anything to hide...' argument at that point, it's 'if you don't have a crime to hide'. That said I'm avoiding such technology as long as possible for other reasons. I say as I type this on my phone with a camera and microphone pointed at me.
  - chaostheory 8y ago
    > You choose what you want to voluntarily share. But since the videos are on Ring's server, when the homeowner says "no," the courts say, "yes." 1. If this is true, then it applies to all data in the cloud, including stuff everyone already stores from their smartphone. Are you going to stop using your smart phone? Are you going to stop using Waze and online maps? Do you maintain your own personal email server? Do you use IM? Law enforcement would also have to make a formal request for the data. They don’t have instant access to it. 2. Again, this is completely opt-in and you can leave when you want. 3. To keep your video clips longer than a few hours, you need to pay for a Ring subscription. Again this is optional. 4. no one is forced to buy Ring devices 5. Mass surveillance has been here for years now. It doesn’t matter if you use Facebook or not. As long as your friends, family, and coworkers use it; they will have data on you. Is it possible to avoid? Of course but it would require such as drastic change in life that it would be impractical for most techies