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Google makes separate agreements with device manufacturers. That's what the article is referring too.

by dannyr 8y ago

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dahfizz 8y ago
Can you expand on this? There is nothing stopping a manufacturer from putting "pure" android on their devices. The reason they freely choose to bundle G apps is because the G apps enhance the final product.
- kryptiskt 8y ago
  They ship Google apps because they must do so to be able to put in Google Play. That's not freely chosen.
  - dahfizz 8y ago
    But they don't need Google Play Services either. They choose to bundle it in because it makes their phones better.
    - hadrien01 8y ago
      They choose to bundle Google Play. Because if you don't have it (with Facebook, and Twitter, and Snapchat, and other essential apps for many people), your device won't sell. But to get the Google Play store, you also need to include Google Play services, Google Play Music, YouTube, Chrome, Google Maps, Location Services, Google Keep, Google Docs, other stores (Movies, NewsStand, Books), etc. This ruling finally forces Google to decouple at least some of its apps from the package, and to sell some devices (but not all of them) with or without Google apps.
    - freeone3000 8y ago
      You need Google Play Services if you want to run the average app. There is no difference, in the consumer's mind, between Play Services and Android. Deliberately, on the part of Google - new geo services are Play Services only, for instance.
      - Markoff 8y ago
        not really, i have phone full of apps without gapps and i am fine - WhatsApp, signal, brave, nine, spotify, boost for Reddit... all work fine, the issue are really only apps depending on maps like Uber
        bubblethink 8y ago
        Uber has other dependencies on play services beyond the location api. The Uber mobile site works though.
    - GeekyBear 8y ago
      Given that modern Android applications require access to API's that are only installed with Google Play Services, it hardly seems optional.
- ce4 8y ago
  You have to become a member of the open handset alliance to ship Google Play. By becoming a member of the OHA you sign a contract with Google that ties you to A) not selling non OHA approved Android devices B) installing Apps X,Y,Z Amazon is one of the few Companies thats not a member of the OHA and can ship their own modified FireOS.
  - dahfizz 8y ago
    But nobody is forcing manufacturers to bundle in Google Play. Nothing at all is stopping manufacturers from shipping "pure" android. They freely choose to enter into these agreements because being able to bundle Google Play makes their phones a better product.
    - ce4 8y ago
      Nobody is forcing you to sell Andtoid devices either. If you do, you want to have access to the Google ecosystem. You will fail without PlayStore access. See Amazon phones.
    - simion314 8y ago
      Because more and more apps depend on Google play, It is like you can buy and install windows on your machine, MS does not force you to install vc++,directx or .NET but most of the apps will depend on this so you are kinda forced to install those.
    - s73v3r_ 8y ago
      Saying it's a "free choice" when you can't have a successful phone in the US and Europe without it is dubious at best.
      - kodablah 8y ago
        > you can't have a successful phone in the US and Europe without it I'm not convinced this is the case. Depends on definitions of successful. The absence of competition is not the same as the absence of the ability to compete, and regulating the latter under that assumption improperly assumes it will fix the former. There is more to success than the playing field.
- hrktb 8y ago
  Google has a defacto monopoly on android app delivery, and a majority of apps use their framework and it’s using that dominant position to force the other Google services on the maker. Does it make more sense put this way ?
  - simion314 8y ago
    I want to add that they moved a lot of stuff from the open source Android into the closed source Google play, so many apps depend on Google play. so not only you need a third party "store" you need to re implement the APIs that the apps depend.1
    - drewmol 8y ago
      expanding on that, from microG's site: "While the core operating system is still released as part of the Android Open Source Project, the majority of core apps are not. It gets worse: More and more libraries and APIs are only available on phones that run various Google apps pre-installed, effectively locking third-party apps to the Google ecosystem. For these reasons Android is described as being a “look but don’t touch” kind of open." MicroG is a project aimed at developing open source alternatives to those android components. https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/

Google makes separate agreements with device manufacturers. That's what the article is referring too.

by dannyr 8y ago

Google makes separate agreements with device manufacturers. That's what the article is referring too.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

dahfizz 8y ago

Can you expand on this? There is nothing stopping a manufacturer from putting "pure" android on their devices. The reason they freely choose to bundle G apps is because the G apps enhance the final product.

kryptiskt 8y ago
They ship Google apps because they must do so to be able to put in Google Play. That's not freely chosen.
- dahfizz 8y ago
  But they don't need Google Play Services either. They choose to bundle it in because it makes their phones better.
  - hadrien01 8y ago
    They choose to bundle Google Play. Because if you don't have it (with Facebook, and Twitter, and Snapchat, and other essential apps for many people), your device won't sell. But to get the Google Play store, you also need to include Google Play services, Google Play Music, YouTube, Chrome, Google Maps, Location Services, Google Keep, Google Docs, other stores (Movies, NewsStand, Books), etc. This ruling finally forces Google to decouple at least some of its apps from the package, and to sell some devices (but not all of them) with or without Google apps.
  - freeone3000 8y ago
    You need Google Play Services if you want to run the average app. There is no difference, in the consumer's mind, between Play Services and Android. Deliberately, on the part of Google - new geo services are Play Services only, for instance.
    - Markoff 8y ago
      not really, i have phone full of apps without gapps and i am fine - WhatsApp, signal, brave, nine, spotify, boost for Reddit... all work fine, the issue are really only apps depending on maps like Uber
      - bubblethink 8y ago
        Uber has other dependencies on play services beyond the location api. The Uber mobile site works though.
  - GeekyBear 8y ago
    Given that modern Android applications require access to API's that are only installed with Google Play Services, it hardly seems optional.
ce4 8y ago
You have to become a member of the open handset alliance to ship Google Play. By becoming a member of the OHA you sign a contract with Google that ties you to A) not selling non OHA approved Android devices B) installing Apps X,Y,Z Amazon is one of the few Companies thats not a member of the OHA and can ship their own modified FireOS.
- dahfizz 8y ago
  But nobody is forcing manufacturers to bundle in Google Play. Nothing at all is stopping manufacturers from shipping "pure" android. They freely choose to enter into these agreements because being able to bundle Google Play makes their phones a better product.
  - ce4 8y ago
    Nobody is forcing you to sell Andtoid devices either. If you do, you want to have access to the Google ecosystem. You will fail without PlayStore access. See Amazon phones.
  - simion314 8y ago
    Because more and more apps depend on Google play, It is like you can buy and install windows on your machine, MS does not force you to install vc++,directx or .NET but most of the apps will depend on this so you are kinda forced to install those.
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    Saying it's a "free choice" when you can't have a successful phone in the US and Europe without it is dubious at best.
    - kodablah 8y ago
      > you can't have a successful phone in the US and Europe without it I'm not convinced this is the case. Depends on definitions of successful. The absence of competition is not the same as the absence of the ability to compete, and regulating the latter under that assumption improperly assumes it will fix the former. There is more to success than the playing field.
hrktb 8y ago
Google has a defacto monopoly on android app delivery, and a majority of apps use their framework and it’s using that dominant position to force the other Google services on the maker. Does it make more sense put this way ?
- simion314 8y ago
  I want to add that they moved a lot of stuff from the open source Android into the closed source Google play, so many apps depend on Google play. so not only you need a third party "store" you need to re implement the APIs that the apps depend.1
  - drewmol 8y ago
    expanding on that, from microG's site: "While the core operating system is still released as part of the Android Open Source Project, the majority of core apps are not. It gets worse: More and more libraries and APIs are only available on phones that run various Google apps pre-installed, effectively locking third-party apps to the Google ecosystem. For these reasons Android is described as being a “look but don’t touch” kind of open." MicroG is a project aimed at developing open source alternatives to those android components. https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/