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I don't know what to say to that. It seems like uplifting but empty advice, the kind of stuff you'd expect from Tony Robins. Not everyone grows up to be an astr

by sown 16y ago

I don't know what to say to that. It seems like uplifting but empty advice, the kind of stuff you'd expect from Tony Robins. Not everyone grows up to be an astronaut.

ryanwaggoner 16y ago
My father-in-law was an astronaut. He's a smart guy, but he grew up in some podunk town in Virginia, his family was decidedly middle class, and he went to a public high school. But he worked hard, got accepted to the Air Force Academy, and eventually became an astronaut. Then the Challenger blew up and NASA and the Air Force parted ways, so he was no longer an astronaut. Instead, he's spent the last 25 years reaching his current position: 3-star general who will most likely be promoted to 4-star and end up running Air Force Space Command or something similar. The trait that I've observed most in him since I met him ten years ago is his unshakeable belief in his ability to get the job done. He's probably the most quietly confident person I know.
- burningion 16y ago
  Agreed. Sometimes being borderline delusional about your ability to accomplish complex things is crucial to actually getting them done.
  - spiffworks 16y ago
    Agreed. Self-doubt has gotten me nowhere.
- sown 16y ago
  Well...not everyone can grow up to be a 3 or 4 star general, either.
  - ryanwaggoner 16y ago
    I think you're missing my point. He didn't "grow up to be" anything in a passive sense. He worked his ass off and earned it. And yes, not everyone can do what he did (as there's not room for n generals in a world of n people). But can anyone do what he did? How do you know that anyone can't be an astronaut or a 4-star general or a fortune 500 CEO or a Senator, or whatever? Or is this some bizarre form of pessimistic trolling?
    - sown 16y ago
      No, I'm just being realistic. Not everyone has what it takes to do just whatever they want. For me, dealing with people who think they can do anything (vs people who really do) is like dealing with religious people: it's a process of non-thought and faith almost. Your father-in-law is one of those rare people who can make it happen. If it was as simple as working hard at it or being determined then everyone would be doing it. This is why it's so hard to find good programmers. It's also a good way to lead people on to guaranteed failure, deluding them into thinking if they work hard enough or try hard enough they can accomplish something. Most of us are not physically capable of understanding certain things that others do understand, are able to work at, etc. I happen to be one of those people who can't understand.
      - ryanwaggoner 16y ago
        If it was as simple as working hard at it or being determined then everyone would be doing it. Ummm, no. Most people seem to be determined, but only to do as little as possible to get by. We clearly just disagree, but I reject your premise that most people are not physically capable of greatness. I don't know you but you're on HN and you express yourself well in writing, which already puts you ahead of 99% of people. The main thing holding you back is that you're determined to not succeed.
        sown 16y ago
        What if Gretzky had been born with no legs? Or an aspiring physicist wants to invent a grand unification theorem but was born with an IQ of 90? I think my situation is obviously not so extreme. See my reply to rick888. I don't think you know what it means to be a failure with no real recourse -- NO recourse short of a radical alteration to my biology. Have some compassion for people for whom things simply don't work out. Everyone seems to think that if you aren't the best it's 120% your fault and in a way it's true. However, sometimes people just get bested and it's just the cards that were dealt to them with the biology they're given.
      - rick888 16y ago
        "Most of us are not physically capable of understanding certain things that others do understand, are able to work at, etc. I happen to be one of those people who can't understand." I don't believe this. Most people aren't willing to put the time and effort into understanding certain things others do understand. "This is why it's so hard to find good programmers." It's hard to find good programmers because many just want a paycheck and they don't care about the quality of code they are churning out.

by sown 16y ago

I don't know what to say to that. It seems like uplifting but empty advice, the kind of stuff you'd expect from Tony Robins. Not everyone grows up to be an astronaut.

ryanwaggoner 16y ago

My father-in-law was an astronaut. He's a smart guy, but he grew up in some podunk town in Virginia, his family was decidedly middle class, and he went to a public high school. But he worked hard, got accepted to the Air Force Academy, and eventually became an astronaut. Then the Challenger blew up and NASA and the Air Force parted ways, so he was no longer an astronaut. Instead, he's spent the last 25 years reaching his current position: 3-star general who will most likely be promoted to 4-star and end up running Air Force Space Command or something similar. The trait that I've observed most in him since I met him ten years ago is his unshakeable belief in his ability to get the job done. He's probably the most quietly confident person I know.

burningion 16y ago
Agreed. Sometimes being borderline delusional about your ability to accomplish complex things is crucial to actually getting them done.
- spiffworks 16y ago
  Agreed. Self-doubt has gotten me nowhere.
sown 16y ago
Well...not everyone can grow up to be a 3 or 4 star general, either.
- ryanwaggoner 16y ago
  I think you're missing my point. He didn't "grow up to be" anything in a passive sense. He worked his ass off and earned it. And yes, not everyone can do what he did (as there's not room for n generals in a world of n people). But can anyone do what he did? How do you know that anyone can't be an astronaut or a 4-star general or a fortune 500 CEO or a Senator, or whatever? Or is this some bizarre form of pessimistic trolling?
  - sown 16y ago
    No, I'm just being realistic. Not everyone has what it takes to do just whatever they want. For me, dealing with people who think they can do anything (vs people who really do) is like dealing with religious people: it's a process of non-thought and faith almost. Your father-in-law is one of those rare people who can make it happen. If it was as simple as working hard at it or being determined then everyone would be doing it. This is why it's so hard to find good programmers. It's also a good way to lead people on to guaranteed failure, deluding them into thinking if they work hard enough or try hard enough they can accomplish something. Most of us are not physically capable of understanding certain things that others do understand, are able to work at, etc. I happen to be one of those people who can't understand.
    - ryanwaggoner 16y ago
      If it was as simple as working hard at it or being determined then everyone would be doing it. Ummm, no. Most people seem to be determined, but only to do as little as possible to get by. We clearly just disagree, but I reject your premise that most people are not physically capable of greatness. I don't know you but you're on HN and you express yourself well in writing, which already puts you ahead of 99% of people. The main thing holding you back is that you're determined to not succeed.
      - sown 16y ago
        What if Gretzky had been born with no legs? Or an aspiring physicist wants to invent a grand unification theorem but was born with an IQ of 90? I think my situation is obviously not so extreme. See my reply to rick888. I don't think you know what it means to be a failure with no real recourse -- NO recourse short of a radical alteration to my biology. Have some compassion for people for whom things simply don't work out. Everyone seems to think that if you aren't the best it's 120% your fault and in a way it's true. However, sometimes people just get bested and it's just the cards that were dealt to them with the biology they're given.
    - rick888 16y ago
      "Most of us are not physically capable of understanding certain things that others do understand, are able to work at, etc. I happen to be one of those people who can't understand." I don't believe this. Most people aren't willing to put the time and effort into understanding certain things others do understand. "This is why it's so hard to find good programmers." It's hard to find good programmers because many just want a paycheck and they don't care about the quality of code they are churning out.