5 ms·

I used to work as a salaried employee for a consulting firm. I'd record my hours on a timesheet so that they could bill the right clients, but anything over 40

I used to work as a salaried employee for a consulting firm. I'd record my hours on a timesheet so that they could bill the right clients, but anything over 40 hours a week was ignored on my paycheck. The understanding was that if ever your hours dropped below 40, you could bill an overhead number to make up for the difference, thus the fairness of not getting paid for overtime. So a year in, I only managed to find 35 hours of work one week, so I called up HR and got that overhead number to put down for those extra 5 hours. Next day, I found myself in a meeting with my boss and his boss, being put on some form of probationary "hourly" status, working part time until I could get my workload back up to speed. I could work as few as 24 hours per week, and I'd only get paid for the hours I worked. So naturally things picked up and soon I found myself working 50 and 60 hour weeks again, and amazingly, my new "hourly" status meant I was getting paid for all of them. HR sent up the necessary paperwork to get me back onto "Salaried" mode and I told them I'd get it right back to them. 1 month later, they sent that paperwork again, and I apologized for letting it go on so long. Next month, my boss delivered it by hand and I promised to "get right on it." Finally, after 180 days of billing 60 hour weeks and getting paid for all of it, I found myself back in that same room with my boss, his boss, and now his boss, all of whom wanting to know why I hadn't filled in that paperwork. I laid out the math for them. Silence... Then uncontrolled laughter from all hands. Congratulations, son. But how about we fill out that paperwork right now?

tome 16y ago
Wasn't it obvious to them before the meeting why you hadn't filled it in?
- jasonkester 16y ago
  They wouldn't be looking at it from that angle. Probationary statuses are generally considered a bad thing in big companies, and are often used as a first step in building a case for termination. As a cog who's hoping to make a career in one of those big companies, you're expected to want to get off that bad status and back into "good worker" mode as quickly as possible. It had never occurred to anybody that they might have an employee who didn't care about internal promotion or their "career" at the company. So no, the only reason they pushed it was that it was looking bad for them to have employees on the "underperforming" list. The fact that the penalty for underperformance was essentially a raise was something they had never even considered.
  - wallflower 16y ago
    > Probationary statuses are generally considered a bad thing As someone who was almost put on a performance plan for coming to work late, you don't ever want to be put on a PP. Basically, my PP would have been documenting my arrival times for 30 days and if a fair number were out of a 5 minute tolerance range, the PP would be used as a next step for being fired. Basically, a PP is something you sign that is a contract on your job. It provides legal immunity to HR to fire you. Fortunately, my boss and his boss convinced me to shape up and realize what a sword of Damacles a PP is. I started arriving early and realized how laughably bad it looked when I arrived at my whatever times. Not only do you stick out but you make your bosses look bad. In the land of corporate conformity, not following the rules leads to bad things.
    - borism 16y ago
      wow! what a fuss over nothing (arriving late). I hope I never work at such company (if it's in IT).
      - bmelton 16y ago
        Not knowing what the job was, how do you know it was unimportant? I mean, it's easy to dismiss corporate policies as unnecessary, or even overbearing, but if he were working a job that was time-sensitive, I would certainly expect people to show up on time. Having worked help desk jobs, usually as the 'overnight' guy, I was personally the person that was screwed over when people showed up late, as I couldn't leave the desk unmanned. Regardless, showing up late, when you've agreed to show up at a certain time, is rude, at the very best. Not every employer care, or will even tie you to a schedule, but if you're on one, disregarding it as nonsense doesn't sound like the best way to stay employed.
        borism 16y ago
        Heck, working in monitoring I know that there are jobs where punctuality is very important. Although I don't usually do shifts myself I've done few when there's noone else available, and it was very embarrasing when I forgot and showed up late one morning to replace a sleepy night shift guy. But that's something we try to avoid as a team, not some corporate policy managers can hide behind to screw you over and/or cover their asses.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
- wr1472 16y ago
  theft?
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - moron4hire 16y ago
    MY ORIGINAL POST: "It's theft to get paid for one's work?" UPDATE: wr1472 explains the situation below. Sorry for the confusion.
    - wr1472 16y ago
      I was referring to the parent post of buying a mouse and then swapping out for a cheaper version, on which s/he claimed the cost back - it has subsequently been deleted. Not the grandparent post!
    - moron4hire 16y ago
      wr1472: Ah, sorry. These things are difficult to follow when pertinent points get deleted.
zaidf 16y ago
What about benefits? Did you still have them? Billing hourly doesn't usually include benefits like healthcare and thus isn't as profitable as it may appear. Btw I learned from a high-up exec at a consulting firm that they make a good chunk of their money from the hours you work above 40. In his words: "that is pure profit"...because like you said, you only get paid for 40 as full-time employee. The consulting firm, though, bills by the hour.
tpz 16y ago
Don't kid yourself. You were called into those meetings because, like at many companies, there was a promise of time in return for extra time put in but, like at many companies, that promise was never intended to go both ways. The first meeting was because you dared to utilize their promise and get some time in return. The second meeting was because their usual course of action in such first meetings backfired on them and you were in the room to get brought back into line (specifically, back onto salary.) You didn't mention quitting in response or forcing them to give you a raise in acknowledgment of your efforts. Did you?
- jasonkester 16y ago
  Thanks for paraphrasing, but all that was implied in what I wrote. It was company policy to promote the illusion of paid undertime at the expense of no paid overtime. The only problem was that they'd written the policy in a way that it could be exploited.
  - fnl 16y ago
    Ok, that answers my joke below :) Darn, I'd had not even negotiated the first time - nice hack, with 5 months some "real" payment :)
  - tpz 16y ago
    I figured that either the original situation went over your head or that your post went over mine, so at least now I know which. That and that I should have gotten more sleep last night. :) At least you were able to work the system there for a good six months. The vast majority of people finding themselves in that kind of work situation don't tend to fare nearly as well as you did.
SimHacker 16y ago
When I was a summer intern at Sun Microsystems in '87, working in building 1 in Mountain View, I turned in a time sheet with more than 8 hours on several days. HR took me aside and insisted I put down any hours of any day that I worked more than 8 hours as overtime -- at time and a half -- even if other days were less than 8. Yes, insisted! Well that got me off to a good start, and ruined me for life! Not only did I not have to work 8 hours every day as long as the total was 40 hours per week, the more irregular my hours were, the more money I made! Now I just can't break that habit. I doubt Oracle treats their summer interns so well.
- Bostwick 16y ago
  I'm in college now, and had an internship with a company in California last summer where HR did the exact same thing. Apparently, it's California law that hourly employees can only work 8 hours per day, and anything over 8 hours in a 24 hours period is "overtime." I'm now at an internship with a software company in New York, where the rules are what I consider "normal": Anything over 40 hours in a week is considered overtime, no matter when it was worked. However, the company has a strict no-overtime policy without (hard-to-get) prior approval. For me, this meant I spent more of my time working in CA, because I was rewarded, while in NY, I work 9 hour days four days a week, then take off after lunch on Friday for a 2.5 day weekend.
fnl 16y ago
So I hope you didn't sign, no matter the consequences! :P

tome 16y ago

Wasn't it obvious to them before the meeting why you hadn't filled it in?

jasonkester 16y ago
They wouldn't be looking at it from that angle. Probationary statuses are generally considered a bad thing in big companies, and are often used as a first step in building a case for termination. As a cog who's hoping to make a career in one of those big companies, you're expected to want to get off that bad status and back into "good worker" mode as quickly as possible. It had never occurred to anybody that they might have an employee who didn't care about internal promotion or their "career" at the company. So no, the only reason they pushed it was that it was looking bad for them to have employees on the "underperforming" list. The fact that the penalty for underperformance was essentially a raise was something they had never even considered.
- wallflower 16y ago
  > Probationary statuses are generally considered a bad thing As someone who was almost put on a performance plan for coming to work late, you don't ever want to be put on a PP. Basically, my PP would have been documenting my arrival times for 30 days and if a fair number were out of a 5 minute tolerance range, the PP would be used as a next step for being fired. Basically, a PP is something you sign that is a contract on your job. It provides legal immunity to HR to fire you. Fortunately, my boss and his boss convinced me to shape up and realize what a sword of Damacles a PP is. I started arriving early and realized how laughably bad it looked when I arrived at my whatever times. Not only do you stick out but you make your bosses look bad. In the land of corporate conformity, not following the rules leads to bad things.
  - borism 16y ago
    wow! what a fuss over nothing (arriving late). I hope I never work at such company (if it's in IT).
    - bmelton 16y ago
      Not knowing what the job was, how do you know it was unimportant? I mean, it's easy to dismiss corporate policies as unnecessary, or even overbearing, but if he were working a job that was time-sensitive, I would certainly expect people to show up on time. Having worked help desk jobs, usually as the 'overnight' guy, I was personally the person that was screwed over when people showed up late, as I couldn't leave the desk unmanned. Regardless, showing up late, when you've agreed to show up at a certain time, is rude, at the very best. Not every employer care, or will even tie you to a schedule, but if you're on one, disregarding it as nonsense doesn't sound like the best way to stay employed.
      - borism 16y ago
        Heck, working in monitoring I know that there are jobs where punctuality is very important. Although I don't usually do shifts myself I've done few when there's noone else available, and it was very embarrasing when I forgot and showed up late one morning to replace a sleepy night shift guy. But that's something we try to avoid as a team, not some corporate policy managers can hide behind to screw you over and/or cover their asses.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

wr1472 16y ago
theft?
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- moron4hire 16y ago
  MY ORIGINAL POST: "It's theft to get paid for one's work?" UPDATE: wr1472 explains the situation below. Sorry for the confusion.
  - wr1472 16y ago
    I was referring to the parent post of buying a mouse and then swapping out for a cheaper version, on which s/he claimed the cost back - it has subsequently been deleted. Not the grandparent post!
  - moron4hire 16y ago
    wr1472: Ah, sorry. These things are difficult to follow when pertinent points get deleted.

zaidf 16y ago

What about benefits? Did you still have them? Billing hourly doesn't usually include benefits like healthcare and thus isn't as profitable as it may appear. Btw I learned from a high-up exec at a consulting firm that they make a good chunk of their money from the hours you work above 40. In his words: "that is pure profit"...because like you said, you only get paid for 40 as full-time employee. The consulting firm, though, bills by the hour.

tpz 16y ago

Don't kid yourself. You were called into those meetings because, like at many companies, there was a promise of time in return for extra time put in but, like at many companies, that promise was never intended to go both ways. The first meeting was because you dared to utilize their promise and get some time in return. The second meeting was because their usual course of action in such first meetings backfired on them and you were in the room to get brought back into line (specifically, back onto salary.) You didn't mention quitting in response or forcing them to give you a raise in acknowledgment of your efforts. Did you?

jasonkester 16y ago
Thanks for paraphrasing, but all that was implied in what I wrote. It was company policy to promote the illusion of paid undertime at the expense of no paid overtime. The only problem was that they'd written the policy in a way that it could be exploited.
- fnl 16y ago
  Ok, that answers my joke below :) Darn, I'd had not even negotiated the first time - nice hack, with 5 months some "real" payment :)
- tpz 16y ago
  I figured that either the original situation went over your head or that your post went over mine, so at least now I know which. That and that I should have gotten more sleep last night. :) At least you were able to work the system there for a good six months. The vast majority of people finding themselves in that kind of work situation don't tend to fare nearly as well as you did.

SimHacker 16y ago

When I was a summer intern at Sun Microsystems in '87, working in building 1 in Mountain View, I turned in a time sheet with more than 8 hours on several days. HR took me aside and insisted I put down any hours of any day that I worked more than 8 hours as overtime -- at time and a half -- even if other days were less than 8. Yes, insisted! Well that got me off to a good start, and ruined me for life! Not only did I not have to work 8 hours every day as long as the total was 40 hours per week, the more irregular my hours were, the more money I made! Now I just can't break that habit. I doubt Oracle treats their summer interns so well.

Bostwick 16y ago
I'm in college now, and had an internship with a company in California last summer where HR did the exact same thing. Apparently, it's California law that hourly employees can only work 8 hours per day, and anything over 8 hours in a 24 hours period is "overtime." I'm now at an internship with a software company in New York, where the rules are what I consider "normal": Anything over 40 hours in a week is considered overtime, no matter when it was worked. However, the company has a strict no-overtime policy without (hard-to-get) prior approval. For me, this meant I spent more of my time working in CA, because I was rewarded, while in NY, I work 9 hour days four days a week, then take off after lunch on Friday for a 2.5 day weekend.

fnl 16y ago

So I hope you didn't sign, no matter the consequences! :P