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>There is no legitimate "other side" to this argument, just hate. This is a perfect example of the problem, no intellectual capability to refute, resulting in

>There is no legitimate "other side" to this argument, just hate. This is a perfect example of the problem, no intellectual capability to refute, resulting in a desperate resort to bigotry.

tiglionabbit 8y ago
What is the discussion here?
josefresco 8y ago
There's no intellectual argument to refute. Just the conservative trope "my opinions are being oppressed!" then when you ask about their conservative principles it basically boils down to justifying their racism/sexism or their own bigotry.
- true_religion 8y ago
  Oh, I can give you examples. Here is one: the natural hair movement, good or bad? A liberal view is on favor of it, as straightening ones hair can be seen as trying to ape European hair type, and popularizing it as glamarous demeans people with naturally kinky hair forcing them to change to an unnatural state. A conservative view holds that hair straightening is ok, as that is the culture which we grew up in, and to throw it away turns our backs on the decades of tradition and shared culture around it. A hostile liberal would say a conservative is an “uncle tom” at best, or at worst someone who was brainwashed by racists and is a danger to society. The hostility prevents further discussion. ......... I am sure this is not what you expected but I chose a light topic intentionally to show it is the hostility and not the base principles that are at fault. Also I wanted to show that the conservative / liberal divide is not one of race. Many blacks have conservative views if you look outside of race issues (e.g. topics of religion trend conservative within the black community).
  - josefresco 8y ago
    What would a "hostile conservative" say? Or are you implying there is no hostility from conservatives voices in this debate?
    - true_religion 8y ago
      Hostile conservatives would say spitting upon existing practice is tantamount to destroying society. Personally, I think that universities should be a place of debate, and intellectual broadening without hostility. As a conservative, I am well aware that conservative universities exist, and are often extremely hostile to liberal viewpoints (e.g. try suggesting cohabitation is okay at Liberty University, and see how fast you are reprimanded). I think that is wrong, even though society seems to feel that by going to a conservative university, that treatment is okay because you knew what you were getting. We can do better, on both sides. Don’t you agree?
- smsm42 8y ago
  > when you ask about their conservative principles it basically boils down to justifying their racism/ Congratulations, you failed the ideological Turing Test: https://medium.com/the-polymath-project/the-ideological-turing-test-how-to-be-less-wrong-6803a8c290cf https://medium.com/the-polymath-project/the-ideological-turi...
- dang 8y ago
  Would you please not use HN for ideological warfare? It leads to just the kind of dumbed-down, fired-up discussion that we're trying to avoid here, and your comments in this thread are clearly practicing the genre. Instead, please follow the site guidelines, which include: "Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

>There is no legitimate "other side" to this argument, just hate. This is a perfect example of the problem, no intellectual capability to refute, resulting in a desperate resort to bigotry.

tiglionabbit 8y ago

What is the discussion here?

josefresco 8y ago

There's no intellectual argument to refute. Just the conservative trope "my opinions are being oppressed!" then when you ask about their conservative principles it basically boils down to justifying their racism/sexism or their own bigotry.

true_religion 8y ago
Oh, I can give you examples. Here is one: the natural hair movement, good or bad? A liberal view is on favor of it, as straightening ones hair can be seen as trying to ape European hair type, and popularizing it as glamarous demeans people with naturally kinky hair forcing them to change to an unnatural state. A conservative view holds that hair straightening is ok, as that is the culture which we grew up in, and to throw it away turns our backs on the decades of tradition and shared culture around it. A hostile liberal would say a conservative is an “uncle tom” at best, or at worst someone who was brainwashed by racists and is a danger to society. The hostility prevents further discussion. ......... I am sure this is not what you expected but I chose a light topic intentionally to show it is the hostility and not the base principles that are at fault. Also I wanted to show that the conservative / liberal divide is not one of race. Many blacks have conservative views if you look outside of race issues (e.g. topics of religion trend conservative within the black community).
- josefresco 8y ago
  What would a "hostile conservative" say? Or are you implying there is no hostility from conservatives voices in this debate?
  - true_religion 8y ago
    Hostile conservatives would say spitting upon existing practice is tantamount to destroying society. Personally, I think that universities should be a place of debate, and intellectual broadening without hostility. As a conservative, I am well aware that conservative universities exist, and are often extremely hostile to liberal viewpoints (e.g. try suggesting cohabitation is okay at Liberty University, and see how fast you are reprimanded). I think that is wrong, even though society seems to feel that by going to a conservative university, that treatment is okay because you knew what you were getting. We can do better, on both sides. Don’t you agree?
smsm42 8y ago
> when you ask about their conservative principles it basically boils down to justifying their racism/ Congratulations, you failed the ideological Turing Test: https://medium.com/the-polymath-project/the-ideological-turing-test-how-to-be-less-wrong-6803a8c290cf https://medium.com/the-polymath-project/the-ideological-turi...
dang 8y ago
Would you please not use HN for ideological warfare? It leads to just the kind of dumbed-down, fired-up discussion that we're trying to avoid here, and your comments in this thread are clearly practicing the genre. Instead, please follow the site guidelines, which include: "Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html