3 ms·

Except that almost nobody who hits a kid on the highway did it on purpose, and everyone who commits sexual assualt does it entirely on purpose. Sexual assault

by getoj 8y ago

Except that almost nobody who hits a kid on the highway did it on purpose, and everyone who commits sexual assualt does it entirely on purpose. Sexual assault is unrelated to the victim's behavior because no matter how foolish you were, if your attacker wasn't a vile fucking shitbag then it wouldn't have happened. People who commit assault make a choice, every single time. And then they get away with it, because other people somehow believe that "the kid came out of nowhere and I couldn't brake in time" and "she was drunk and wearing a short skirt, what was I supposed to do" are equivalent defences. Edit for clarity: I'm not saying that you're justifying the attacker. I'm saying that while advice like this is sometimes practical before an attack happens[1], it's irrelevant after the fact. Entirely. Every time. Because sexual assault doesn't happen by negligence (which can legally and logically be shared by both parties), it happens by intent. So we should stop asking what she could have done, and start asking what we can do. [1] Although trust me, every woman is fully clued up on the fact that she could be attacked at any time - have your ever been asked to walk a coworker to her car?

manfredo 8y ago
> Except that almost nobody who hits a kid on the highway did it on purpose, and everyone who commits sexual assualt does it entirely on purpose. This statement needs qualification. The majority of cases of sexual assault that my undergrad unversity's Title IX office handled consisted of cases where the accused believes sex was consensual. Such as not knowing that the accuser had taken drugs beforehand, the accuser claims to have withdrawn consent partway through but the accused reported that consent was never revoked, etc. Granted, it could be possible that the types of sexual assault accusations that are reported to the Title IX office aren't the same types of assault reported to the police.
burfog 8y ago
People who hit kids on the highway can face criminal charges, even when there is no intent to hit kids. Negligence often leads to manslaughter charges. We don't always let drivers get away with "the kid came out of nowhere and I couldn't brake in time". Advice is not irrelevant after the fact. First, there's always next time. Second, other people can learn by example. It's like the advice given alongside car crash pictures shown in driver education classes; this is useful even if the person in the crash is long dead. Learning from the mistakes of others is important. Today, people are afraid to point out mistakes and give safety advice because it gets seen as "victim blaming". This is a problem. If you insist on "asking what we can do" though, and you are honest about it, then you've really kicked a hornet's nest. Sexual assault rates vary around the world, and some places change suddenly when the population changes. Good luck having a productive discussion on the matter.
AnthonyMouse 8y ago
> Except that almost nobody who hits a kid on the highway did it on purpose, and everyone who commits sexual assualt does it entirely on purpose. Counterexample: There was a recent episode of Vice titled Consent, which included a mediation between a man and a woman where the man had no conception that the woman hadn't consented. It's not hard to see why this is common. When you have a power dynamic, even subtle and unofficial ones, someone who doesn't want to consent has an internal conflict. They neither want to participate nor want to harm their relationship with the other person. Those types of situations are horrifying. If you signal refusal using overtly transparent methods (throw a drink in their face, scream, slap them), they'll get the message but at the cost of making a scene and potentially souring the relationship. If you try to be too subtle they won't get the hint. The middle ground exists, but with pressure on both sides, it's not the least bit surprising that sometimes someone errs too far on the side of not making a scene. I don't mean to blame the victim in a moral sense, but in a technical sense where sometimes the situation is hard and the right balance isn't clear. In many of these cases it's still fair to blame the other person for not getting the message, but the failure can certainly be in perception rather than intent. In a sense it is very similar to when you hit a kid in the road because you weren't paying enough attention.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  It's actually a lot more complicated than that. I have been watching this discussion and loathe to jump in. I'm glad to see a few comments adding some nuance, in spite of this being a conversation with very polarized positions.

by getoj 8y ago

manfredo 8y ago

> Except that almost nobody who hits a kid on the highway did it on purpose, and everyone who commits sexual assualt does it entirely on purpose. This statement needs qualification. The majority of cases of sexual assault that my undergrad unversity's Title IX office handled consisted of cases where the accused believes sex was consensual. Such as not knowing that the accuser had taken drugs beforehand, the accuser claims to have withdrawn consent partway through but the accused reported that consent was never revoked, etc. Granted, it could be possible that the types of sexual assault accusations that are reported to the Title IX office aren't the same types of assault reported to the police.

burfog 8y ago

People who hit kids on the highway can face criminal charges, even when there is no intent to hit kids. Negligence often leads to manslaughter charges. We don't always let drivers get away with "the kid came out of nowhere and I couldn't brake in time". Advice is not irrelevant after the fact. First, there's always next time. Second, other people can learn by example. It's like the advice given alongside car crash pictures shown in driver education classes; this is useful even if the person in the crash is long dead. Learning from the mistakes of others is important. Today, people are afraid to point out mistakes and give safety advice because it gets seen as "victim blaming". This is a problem. If you insist on "asking what we can do" though, and you are honest about it, then you've really kicked a hornet's nest. Sexual assault rates vary around the world, and some places change suddenly when the population changes. Good luck having a productive discussion on the matter.

AnthonyMouse 8y ago

> Except that almost nobody who hits a kid on the highway did it on purpose, and everyone who commits sexual assualt does it entirely on purpose. Counterexample: There was a recent episode of Vice titled Consent, which included a mediation between a man and a woman where the man had no conception that the woman hadn't consented. It's not hard to see why this is common. When you have a power dynamic, even subtle and unofficial ones, someone who doesn't want to consent has an internal conflict. They neither want to participate nor want to harm their relationship with the other person. Those types of situations are horrifying. If you signal refusal using overtly transparent methods (throw a drink in their face, scream, slap them), they'll get the message but at the cost of making a scene and potentially souring the relationship. If you try to be too subtle they won't get the hint. The middle ground exists, but with pressure on both sides, it's not the least bit surprising that sometimes someone errs too far on the side of not making a scene. I don't mean to blame the victim in a moral sense, but in a technical sense where sometimes the situation is hard and the right balance isn't clear. In many of these cases it's still fair to blame the other person for not getting the message, but the failure can certainly be in perception rather than intent. In a sense it is very similar to when you hit a kid in the road because you weren't paying enough attention.

DoreenMichele 8y ago
It's actually a lot more complicated than that. I have been watching this discussion and loathe to jump in. I'm glad to see a few comments adding some nuance, in spite of this being a conversation with very polarized positions.