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This isn't just about the most widely publicised events (in which just as many and more as the ones you listed were spot on) but about something that impacts wo

This isn't just about the most widely publicised events (in which just as many and more as the ones you listed were spot on) but about something that impacts women at every level of society. Try talking to your female friends about it.

sievebrain 8y ago
The women making false claims are at every level of society. There is be very obviously a massively unhealthy amount of exaggeration and lying going on, so why would asking random female friends yield any insight? Here's my experience with not asking my female friends about this topic: it came up anyway in unrelated conversations and both times they were very clearly bullshitting me. One girl claimed she'd nearly been raped, and when I expressed surprise, told me a story in which she met a guy at a party, flirted with him and led him on all night (her words), took him home with her, made out with him, went into her bedroom after saying she was going to change and would be right back, then at the very last second decided actually she didn't want sex and changed into her PJ's. She then told the guy to go home and he said something like,"that's not fair, you can't do that". Obviously expressing dismay at how she'd misled him about her intentions. She interpreted this final remark as "I'm about to get raped" and then (again in her words) had a melt down and started yelling and screaming at him until he left. There was nothing in this story to suggest she was in any danger at all. In another case a girl I knew suddenly announced she might accuse a former friend of hers of sexual harassment. The reason was he was also a former manager and had given her tough feedback about poor career choices she made, so he wasn't a friend anymore. I'm afraid my experience of women self reporting this stuff matches exactly what we see with #metoo and the recent kavanaugh hearing. Women are simply not reliable self reporters of sexual harassment or assault.
- DanBC 8y ago
  You don't think there's another reason why women are not telling you about their experiences?
  - sievebrain 8y ago
    No. I never bring up the topic with them not do I express any opinions about the veracity of such stories in front of them. But hey thanks for the ad-hominem that suggests my friends don't trust me despite knowing nothing about me DanBC. I can easily do the same in reverse - did it ever occur that perhaps women tell you about "experiences" because they think you're an easy mark?
    - tomp 8y ago
      I really wish your post above wasn't flagged. I tried "vouching" for it but I don't think it worked.
      - sievebrain 8y ago
        Thanks anyway. HN readers can't handle the idea of a woman lying at all, really.
    - DanBC 8y ago
      You don't think you're guilty of adhom yourself, with your "they're all lying" claim? And, really,it doesn't matter what they tell me or you. It matters what they tell crime survey statisticians. Have you _ever_ bothered to look up your country's crime survey stats?
      - sievebrain 8y ago
        Ad hominem would be if I tried to dismiss an argument with an unrelated attack on someone's personality. In this case I'm not even talking about their personalities or making unrelated accusations, just reporting what happened. Reporting their stories in their own words can't possibly be ad hominem and I'm not even accusing them of lying - they clearly told me what really happened, that's how I'm so sure they were never in danger. I'm well aware of what self reported crime stats say but my entire thesis in this thread is that women routinely make wildly exaggerated claims so why would surveys of what they think change my mind? A huge disparity between self reports and actual criminal cases is exactly what I'd expect to see
jhfhhhf 8y ago
The other day I saw a video of a woman calling the cops on a 9 year old boy because he accidentally brushed her butt with his backpack. Sorry, I am not yet convinced. And the women I see around me don't seem that stressed out. I'd expect them to be nervous wrecks who never leave the house if everything was as horrible as feminists claim. I also know women who are unhappy if they don't receive any attention anymore. A cynic could say the problems solves itself for most women after a while :-(
- colemickens 8y ago
  Wow, (regarding that video you reference) this is the first time I've seen someone use an obvious mentally ill person to push their strawman representation of a perceived ideological opponent. >Sorry, I am not yet convinced. And the women I see around me don't seem that stressed out. I'd expect them to be nervous wrecks who never leave the house if everything was as horrible as feminists claim. "Never mind the cacophony of stories being told elsewhere, nobody has told me directly so they must all be lying!" Gee, I wonder why no women have talked to you about their experiences with men. Can't say I'd ever be having that sort of conversation with someone that spends their time doubting the experiences of women for no reason, with no justification. >I also know women who are unhappy if they don't receive any attention anymore. "I know women that want attention so women must not have it bad or experience casual, common harassment.". How is any of this real? >I'd expect them to be nervous wrecks who never leave the house if everything was as horrible as feminists claim. What does this mean? "As feminists claim". What feminist literature are you reading and referencing? How are you measuring the pulse of feminism right now? Could you please clarify if you are simply stating that you don't believe the number of women that have discussed their own personal experiences with harassment? They're all in on some ploy to punk men? I really am curious what the thought is here.

sievebrain 8y ago

The women making false claims are at every level of society. There is be very obviously a massively unhealthy amount of exaggeration and lying going on, so why would asking random female friends yield any insight? Here's my experience with not asking my female friends about this topic: it came up anyway in unrelated conversations and both times they were very clearly bullshitting me. One girl claimed she'd nearly been raped, and when I expressed surprise, told me a story in which she met a guy at a party, flirted with him and led him on all night (her words), took him home with her, made out with him, went into her bedroom after saying she was going to change and would be right back, then at the very last second decided actually she didn't want sex and changed into her PJ's. She then told the guy to go home and he said something like,"that's not fair, you can't do that". Obviously expressing dismay at how she'd misled him about her intentions. She interpreted this final remark as "I'm about to get raped" and then (again in her words) had a melt down and started yelling and screaming at him until he left. There was nothing in this story to suggest she was in any danger at all. In another case a girl I knew suddenly announced she might accuse a former friend of hers of sexual harassment. The reason was he was also a former manager and had given her tough feedback about poor career choices she made, so he wasn't a friend anymore. I'm afraid my experience of women self reporting this stuff matches exactly what we see with #metoo and the recent kavanaugh hearing. Women are simply not reliable self reporters of sexual harassment or assault.

DanBC 8y ago
You don't think there's another reason why women are not telling you about their experiences?
- sievebrain 8y ago
  No. I never bring up the topic with them not do I express any opinions about the veracity of such stories in front of them. But hey thanks for the ad-hominem that suggests my friends don't trust me despite knowing nothing about me DanBC. I can easily do the same in reverse - did it ever occur that perhaps women tell you about "experiences" because they think you're an easy mark?
  - tomp 8y ago
    I really wish your post above wasn't flagged. I tried "vouching" for it but I don't think it worked.
    - sievebrain 8y ago
      Thanks anyway. HN readers can't handle the idea of a woman lying at all, really.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    You don't think you're guilty of adhom yourself, with your "they're all lying" claim? And, really,it doesn't matter what they tell me or you. It matters what they tell crime survey statisticians. Have you _ever_ bothered to look up your country's crime survey stats?
    - sievebrain 8y ago
      Ad hominem would be if I tried to dismiss an argument with an unrelated attack on someone's personality. In this case I'm not even talking about their personalities or making unrelated accusations, just reporting what happened. Reporting their stories in their own words can't possibly be ad hominem and I'm not even accusing them of lying - they clearly told me what really happened, that's how I'm so sure they were never in danger. I'm well aware of what self reported crime stats say but my entire thesis in this thread is that women routinely make wildly exaggerated claims so why would surveys of what they think change my mind? A huge disparity between self reports and actual criminal cases is exactly what I'd expect to see

jhfhhhf 8y ago

The other day I saw a video of a woman calling the cops on a 9 year old boy because he accidentally brushed her butt with his backpack. Sorry, I am not yet convinced. And the women I see around me don't seem that stressed out. I'd expect them to be nervous wrecks who never leave the house if everything was as horrible as feminists claim. I also know women who are unhappy if they don't receive any attention anymore. A cynic could say the problems solves itself for most women after a while :-(

colemickens 8y ago
Wow, (regarding that video you reference) this is the first time I've seen someone use an obvious mentally ill person to push their strawman representation of a perceived ideological opponent. >Sorry, I am not yet convinced. And the women I see around me don't seem that stressed out. I'd expect them to be nervous wrecks who never leave the house if everything was as horrible as feminists claim. "Never mind the cacophony of stories being told elsewhere, nobody has told me directly so they must all be lying!" Gee, I wonder why no women have talked to you about their experiences with men. Can't say I'd ever be having that sort of conversation with someone that spends their time doubting the experiences of women for no reason, with no justification. >I also know women who are unhappy if they don't receive any attention anymore. "I know women that want attention so women must not have it bad or experience casual, common harassment.". How is any of this real? >I'd expect them to be nervous wrecks who never leave the house if everything was as horrible as feminists claim. What does this mean? "As feminists claim". What feminist literature are you reading and referencing? How are you measuring the pulse of feminism right now? Could you please clarify if you are simply stating that you don't believe the number of women that have discussed their own personal experiences with harassment? They're all in on some ploy to punk men? I really am curious what the thought is here.