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The two sides in this context are men and women. Which group do you think black men belong to?

CocaKoala 8y ago
I'm still confused. Are you saying that "Black Men" and "Men" are the same group?
CocaKoala 8y ago
And, just so that I make this clear: you've tried to imply several times with your argument that women aren't marginalized, but you've done this purely by bringing up other groups that are marginalized (Women couldn't vote? neither could I, until I immigrated. Women are marginalized? What about the poor black men who were lynched on nothing but the word of a white woman?) and at no point have you addressed the fact that marginalization isn't a binary thing; there's more than two levels of marginalization, and just because some other group was _also_ marginalized, that doesn't mean that it didn't happen to women too. You've neatly sidestepped addressing this on the times that I've brought it up, which is why I keep on harping on this point. There are two possible reasons you're doing this: one is that you legitimately didn't realize that marginalization has multiple levels, in which case maybe you should take a moment to think about the history of the world and the various forms oppression has taken, and the other is that you're deliberately making a bad-faith argument. I'd certainly hope you're not arguing in bad faith, because that would be incredibly rude, but I wanted to make sure I called out what you were doing (and failing to do) to make it clear to anybody who wanders by and reads the argument.
- sheepmullet 8y ago
  > your argument that women aren't marginalized No. My argument is that some women have used their privilege to falsely accuse men in the past and that assigning privilege based on social justice groupings is both stupid and immoral. I literally cannot follow your reasoning at all. I’m the one saying privilege is both relative and context specific. You seem to be trying to apply some strange kind of privilege averaging?
  - CocaKoala 8y ago
    Some women, although the number is certainly an ongoing debate, make false rape accusations, yes. I'm not sure what you mean by "social justice groupings", but "sometimes people lie" still isn't mutually exclusive with "women, on the whole, are and historically have been a marginalized population". You keep on saying things like they're some sort of gotcha, but you never actually argue against the point you're trying to argue against; you just constantly bring up other points and try to act smug.
    - sheepmullet 8y ago
      > but you never actually argue against the point you're trying to argue against Ok let’s back up a bit then: Why exactly, in the context of the metoo movement, is it important to consider that on average women have been historically more marginalized than men? What does historically lacking the right to vote have to do with the veracity of sexual assault allegations?

I'm still confused. Are you saying that "Black Men" and "Men" are the same group?

And, just so that I make this clear: you've tried to imply several times with your argument that women aren't marginalized, but you've done this purely by bringing up other groups that are marginalized (Women couldn't vote? neither could I, until I immigrated. Women are marginalized? What about the poor black men who were lynched on nothing but the word of a white woman?) and at no point have you addressed the fact that marginalization isn't a binary thing; there's more than two levels of marginalization, and just because some other group was _also_ marginalized, that doesn't mean that it didn't happen to women too. You've neatly sidestepped addressing this on the times that I've brought it up, which is why I keep on harping on this point. There are two possible reasons you're doing this: one is that you legitimately didn't realize that marginalization has multiple levels, in which case maybe you should take a moment to think about the history of the world and the various forms oppression has taken, and the other is that you're deliberately making a bad-faith argument. I'd certainly hope you're not arguing in bad faith, because that would be incredibly rude, but I wanted to make sure I called out what you were doing (and failing to do) to make it clear to anybody who wanders by and reads the argument.

sheepmullet 8y ago
> your argument that women aren't marginalized No. My argument is that some women have used their privilege to falsely accuse men in the past and that assigning privilege based on social justice groupings is both stupid and immoral. I literally cannot follow your reasoning at all. I’m the one saying privilege is both relative and context specific. You seem to be trying to apply some strange kind of privilege averaging?
- CocaKoala 8y ago
  Some women, although the number is certainly an ongoing debate, make false rape accusations, yes. I'm not sure what you mean by "social justice groupings", but "sometimes people lie" still isn't mutually exclusive with "women, on the whole, are and historically have been a marginalized population". You keep on saying things like they're some sort of gotcha, but you never actually argue against the point you're trying to argue against; you just constantly bring up other points and try to act smug.
  - sheepmullet 8y ago
    > but you never actually argue against the point you're trying to argue against Ok let’s back up a bit then: Why exactly, in the context of the metoo movement, is it important to consider that on average women have been historically more marginalized than men? What does historically lacking the right to vote have to do with the veracity of sexual assault allegations?