6 ms·

Wow, this is a long time coming. Good luck to the Asian-American community.

rayiner 8y ago
Some (probably lots of) asian-americans don't support this lawsuit, because they see it as a veiled attack on affirmative action: https://abovethelaw.com/2018/10/first-edward-blum-came-for-the-voting-rights-act-now-he-aims-to-gut-affirmative-action-with-the-help-of-asian-americans https://abovethelaw.com/2018/10/first-edward-blum-came-for-t....
- kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
  My understanding is that many Asian Americans are turned away from AA programs because they aren't "traditionally" disenfranchised minorities.
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  Multiple entries in that article link to the same book which came out within the past two weeks saying that the myth "that Asian-Americans need higher test scores than non-Asian-Americans to get into a highly selective college" is debunked. Has anyone actually read the book? Is the topic settled?
  - btilly 8y ago
    I have not read the book, but on general principle I doubt that the topic is settled. If you look at https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2017/08/07/look-data-and-arguments-about-asian-americans-and-admissions-elite https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2017/08/07... you can see that indeed Asian Americans do not get in at the rates that their test scores would suggest that they should. That is evidence of bias against them. However it is hard to prove because it is hard to control for all of the other factors that colleges look for. That and other things that I am aware of strongly suggest that Asians are somewhat discriminated against. Given that, I would be more inclined to suspect bias is more important than fact in anything that claims to be a debunking.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- asianthrowaway 8y ago
  I'm curious as to why any asian american would support affirmative action.
  - akhilcacharya 8y ago
    Hi, I'm Asian and never got into an elite institution like Harvard, but did get into UNC Chapel Hill. I'm thoroughly mediocre overall and was when I applied. I oppose this lawsuit because I see no evidence that this is anything but sour grapes on the part of the aggrieved parties, all of whom seem to have gone to other elite institutions that I could have never gotten into (like Duke). I am fundamentally opposed to the implication of this suit - the acknowledgement that literally any outcome outside of getting into Harvard is a net detriment to life outcomes significant enough to warrant a lawsuit. I believe this to be un-American and incredibly elitist. In addition, the DOJ's tacit support for it appears to be nothing more than a cynical ploy to drive a wedge between Asian-Americans and other people of color. I've seen some analysts claim that this could convince Asian-Americans to start voting Republican again - something I find amusing, because this country and community have significantly larger problems than pearl-clutching about whether one gets into elite school A or elite school B.
    - asianthrowaway 8y ago
      > I am fundamentally opposed to the implication of this suit - the acknowledgement that literally any outcome outside of getting into Harvard is a net detriment to life outcomes significant enough to warrant a lawsuit. I don't think that's the implication. I think the point of the plaintiffs is that the admissions process is racist against asians of equal capability to other races. Now no doubt some of them might be motivated by a personal vendetta against Harvard for being rejected, but I don't think they're asking to be personally admitted to Harvard if their case succeeds. I'm not american but this is literally institutional racism, and it's bizarre to me how people, and especially asians, seem okay with it.
    - gnulinux 8y ago
      I hate saying things like this because it's very meaningless, but this time it's a bit too much. UNC Chapel Hill is absolutely an elite institution. It's one of the most prestigious public schools in the world (recall recent Nobels) and has a very low acceptance rate. Beliefs like this mostly come from the absurd favoritism of the society to private schools. Most people I met would consider a private school roughly as prestigious as UNC "elite" and not consider UNC "elite".
- ummonk 8y ago
  The vast majority of Asian Americans support the lawsuit. A small contingent of progressive Asian American activists (many of whom happened to luck out and make it to elite universities, thus allowing them to shut the door behind them) oppose the lawsuit and claim to represent Asian Americans at large.

Some (probably lots of) asian-americans don't support this lawsuit, because they see it as a veiled attack on affirmative action: https://abovethelaw.com/2018/10/first-edward-blum-came-for-the-voting-rights-act-now-he-aims-to-gut-affirmative-action-with-the-help-of-asian-americans https://abovethelaw.com/2018/10/first-edward-blum-came-for-t....

kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
My understanding is that many Asian Americans are turned away from AA programs because they aren't "traditionally" disenfranchised minorities.
oh_sigh 8y ago
Multiple entries in that article link to the same book which came out within the past two weeks saying that the myth "that Asian-Americans need higher test scores than non-Asian-Americans to get into a highly selective college" is debunked. Has anyone actually read the book? Is the topic settled?
- btilly 8y ago
  I have not read the book, but on general principle I doubt that the topic is settled. If you look at https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2017/08/07/look-data-and-arguments-about-asian-americans-and-admissions-elite https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2017/08/07... you can see that indeed Asian Americans do not get in at the rates that their test scores would suggest that they should. That is evidence of bias against them. However it is hard to prove because it is hard to control for all of the other factors that colleges look for. That and other things that I am aware of strongly suggest that Asians are somewhat discriminated against. Given that, I would be more inclined to suspect bias is more important than fact in anything that claims to be a debunking.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
asianthrowaway 8y ago
I'm curious as to why any asian american would support affirmative action.
- akhilcacharya 8y ago
  Hi, I'm Asian and never got into an elite institution like Harvard, but did get into UNC Chapel Hill. I'm thoroughly mediocre overall and was when I applied. I oppose this lawsuit because I see no evidence that this is anything but sour grapes on the part of the aggrieved parties, all of whom seem to have gone to other elite institutions that I could have never gotten into (like Duke). I am fundamentally opposed to the implication of this suit - the acknowledgement that literally any outcome outside of getting into Harvard is a net detriment to life outcomes significant enough to warrant a lawsuit. I believe this to be un-American and incredibly elitist. In addition, the DOJ's tacit support for it appears to be nothing more than a cynical ploy to drive a wedge between Asian-Americans and other people of color. I've seen some analysts claim that this could convince Asian-Americans to start voting Republican again - something I find amusing, because this country and community have significantly larger problems than pearl-clutching about whether one gets into elite school A or elite school B.
  - asianthrowaway 8y ago
    > I am fundamentally opposed to the implication of this suit - the acknowledgement that literally any outcome outside of getting into Harvard is a net detriment to life outcomes significant enough to warrant a lawsuit. I don't think that's the implication. I think the point of the plaintiffs is that the admissions process is racist against asians of equal capability to other races. Now no doubt some of them might be motivated by a personal vendetta against Harvard for being rejected, but I don't think they're asking to be personally admitted to Harvard if their case succeeds. I'm not american but this is literally institutional racism, and it's bizarre to me how people, and especially asians, seem okay with it.
  - gnulinux 8y ago
    I hate saying things like this because it's very meaningless, but this time it's a bit too much. UNC Chapel Hill is absolutely an elite institution. It's one of the most prestigious public schools in the world (recall recent Nobels) and has a very low acceptance rate. Beliefs like this mostly come from the absurd favoritism of the society to private schools. Most people I met would consider a private school roughly as prestigious as UNC "elite" and not consider UNC "elite".
ummonk 8y ago
The vast majority of Asian Americans support the lawsuit. A small contingent of progressive Asian American activists (many of whom happened to luck out and make it to elite universities, thus allowing them to shut the door behind them) oppose the lawsuit and claim to represent Asian Americans at large.