4 ms·

To expand on this for example in the US we have an interesting history of lynching black men based on the accusations of white women.

CocaKoala 8y ago
"Women are and have been marginalized in the US" is not a statement which is mutually exclusive with "Black people are and have been marginalized in the US", so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
- sheepmullet 8y ago
  > so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. The poster I am replying to claimed: > important to note that exactly one of the two "sides" I.e. they were making a mutually exclusive claim.
  - CocaKoala 8y ago
    So are you saying that the two sides of the "Me Too" movement are "All Women" and "Black Men"? Because otherwise, I still don't understand your point.
    - sheepmullet 8y ago
      The two sides in this context are men and women. Which group do you think black men belong to?
      - CocaKoala 8y ago
        I'm still confused. Are you saying that "Black Men" and "Men" are the same group?
      - CocaKoala 8y ago
        And, just so that I make this clear: you've tried to imply several times with your argument that women aren't marginalized, but you've done this purely by bringing up other groups that are marginalized (Women couldn't vote? neither could I, until I immigrated. Women are marginalized? What about the poor black men who were lynched on nothing but the word of a white woman?) and at no point have you addressed the fact that marginalization isn't a binary thing; there's more than two levels of marginalization, and just because some other group was _also_ marginalized, that doesn't mean that it didn't happen to women too. You've neatly sidestepped addressing this on the times that I've brought it up, which is why I keep on harping on this point. There are two possible reasons you're doing this: one is that you legitimately didn't realize that marginalization has multiple levels, in which case maybe you should take a moment to think about the history of the world and the various forms oppression has taken, and the other is that you're deliberately making a bad-faith argument. I'd certainly hope you're not arguing in bad faith, because that would be incredibly rude, but I wanted to make sure I called out what you were doing (and failing to do) to make it clear to anybody who wanders by and reads the argument.
        sheepmullet 8y ago
        > your argument that women aren't marginalized No. My argument is that some women have used their privilege to falsely accuse men in the past and that assigning privilege based on social justice groupings is both stupid and immoral. I literally cannot follow your reasoning at all. I’m the one saying privilege is both relative and context specific. You seem to be trying to apply some strange kind of privilege averaging?
        CocaKoala 8y ago
        Some women, although the number is certainly an ongoing debate, make false rape accusations, yes. I'm not sure what you mean by "social justice groupings", but "sometimes people lie" still isn't mutually exclusive with "women, on the whole, are and historically have been a marginalized population". You keep on saying things like they're some sort of gotcha, but you never actually argue against the point you're trying to argue against; you just constantly bring up other points and try to act smug.

CocaKoala 8y ago

"Women are and have been marginalized in the US" is not a statement which is mutually exclusive with "Black people are and have been marginalized in the US", so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

sheepmullet 8y ago
> so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. The poster I am replying to claimed: > important to note that exactly one of the two "sides" I.e. they were making a mutually exclusive claim.
- CocaKoala 8y ago
  So are you saying that the two sides of the "Me Too" movement are "All Women" and "Black Men"? Because otherwise, I still don't understand your point.
  - sheepmullet 8y ago
    The two sides in this context are men and women. Which group do you think black men belong to?
    - CocaKoala 8y ago
      I'm still confused. Are you saying that "Black Men" and "Men" are the same group?
    - CocaKoala 8y ago
      And, just so that I make this clear: you've tried to imply several times with your argument that women aren't marginalized, but you've done this purely by bringing up other groups that are marginalized (Women couldn't vote? neither could I, until I immigrated. Women are marginalized? What about the poor black men who were lynched on nothing but the word of a white woman?) and at no point have you addressed the fact that marginalization isn't a binary thing; there's more than two levels of marginalization, and just because some other group was _also_ marginalized, that doesn't mean that it didn't happen to women too. You've neatly sidestepped addressing this on the times that I've brought it up, which is why I keep on harping on this point. There are two possible reasons you're doing this: one is that you legitimately didn't realize that marginalization has multiple levels, in which case maybe you should take a moment to think about the history of the world and the various forms oppression has taken, and the other is that you're deliberately making a bad-faith argument. I'd certainly hope you're not arguing in bad faith, because that would be incredibly rude, but I wanted to make sure I called out what you were doing (and failing to do) to make it clear to anybody who wanders by and reads the argument.
      - sheepmullet 8y ago
        > your argument that women aren't marginalized No. My argument is that some women have used their privilege to falsely accuse men in the past and that assigning privilege based on social justice groupings is both stupid and immoral. I literally cannot follow your reasoning at all. I’m the one saying privilege is both relative and context specific. You seem to be trying to apply some strange kind of privilege averaging?
        CocaKoala 8y ago
        Some women, although the number is certainly an ongoing debate, make false rape accusations, yes. I'm not sure what you mean by "social justice groupings", but "sometimes people lie" still isn't mutually exclusive with "women, on the whole, are and historically have been a marginalized population". You keep on saying things like they're some sort of gotcha, but you never actually argue against the point you're trying to argue against; you just constantly bring up other points and try to act smug.