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I'm not sure what point you expect these examples to make. The second two are straightforward insults - which describing someone as "hot" is not - and the first

I'm not sure what point you expect these examples to make. The second two are straightforward insults - which describing someone as "hot" is not - and the first one would be seen as completely harmless by many (perhaps most) people.

munchbunny 8y ago
> The second two are straightforward insults That's exactly the point: if you can switch some group labels around and make an insult, then don't use the version involving gender.
- XCabbage 8y ago
  The difference between the "hot" example and the "fat" example is not just switching some group labels around! The "hot" example is complimenting the recipient's appearance and expressing (presumably pleasant) surprise at their presence. The "fat" example is insulting the recipient and explicitly advising them against being there. We can imagine examples of weird and uncomfortable compliments that are in some way related to the demographics of the recipient - like someone attempting to flirt by telling a French man "Your voice is way too sexy for you to be a founder" or a well-built black man "You look way too athletic to be a founder". These seem about as socially inept as the "way too hot" example and strike me as reasonable analogues. But the examples in the post I replied to higher in this chain are nothing like this.
  - munchbunny 8y ago
    You're missing some important context then. "Hot" is not a compliment when an investor says this about you, because that's not a trait that matters as a startup founder, and because of the boys club atmosphere that pervades some parts of the VC world, it carries the strong implication that an irrelevant trait is getting in the way of your purpose for being there. If you look at the example the parent poster gave, that's exactly the implication. "Oh, you're way too hot to be a startup founder, what are you doing here?"
  - toomanybeersies 8y ago
    It's not actually a complement though. They're basically saying "I value your presence here because of your appearance, not because of your ideas". Let's give another example of a complement that really isn't: "Wow, it's nice to see some black people at this event for once". It's a positive statement, sure, but it's not an appropriate comment to make. Can you understand how this belittles people?
  - itronitron 8y ago
    If you consider the difference between your two examples, the French man and the black man, I think you may see how one would be more put off than the other by the uncomfortable compliment. Specifically, within the United States (and other countries as well) the black man has been historically disenfrachised and therefore any comment/compliment that they do not belong there will not be well received. The 'too xyz to be here' comment is typically made by people that aren't in a position to judge, possibly for a number of reasons.
Scalestein 8y ago
Describing someone as 'hot' or generally commenting on their appearance when it isn't relevant is a form of objectification. A woman (or man) is at an event to discuss ideas or their company and the first thing someone says to them is about their physical appearance. This is very discouraging to people who have it happen to them very frequently. Assuming you are a man, imagine being at an event and someone coming up and saying something like, "Woah get a load of Fabio over here". Being compared to Fabio might be a compliment in an objective physical sense, but I'm sure that isn't what you want to talk about when you are trying to get funding or make connections.
- Chris_Chambers 8y ago
  >Describing someone as 'hot' or generally commenting on their appearance when it isn't relevant is a form of objectification. No, it isn’t. It’s a form of flirting. >This is very discouraging to people who have it happen to them very frequently. No, it isn’t. The opposite is true. The more often something happens to you, the better you get at dealing with it, and before long you’re an expert at pulling the punch and twisting the scenario in your favor.
- XCabbage 8y ago
  I'm not sure what any of this has to do with my comment that you're replying to. Nothing in it defends commenting on people's appearance or implies that I disagree with anything you've said here.

munchbunny 8y ago

> The second two are straightforward insults That's exactly the point: if you can switch some group labels around and make an insult, then don't use the version involving gender.

XCabbage 8y ago
The difference between the "hot" example and the "fat" example is not just switching some group labels around! The "hot" example is complimenting the recipient's appearance and expressing (presumably pleasant) surprise at their presence. The "fat" example is insulting the recipient and explicitly advising them against being there. We can imagine examples of weird and uncomfortable compliments that are in some way related to the demographics of the recipient - like someone attempting to flirt by telling a French man "Your voice is way too sexy for you to be a founder" or a well-built black man "You look way too athletic to be a founder". These seem about as socially inept as the "way too hot" example and strike me as reasonable analogues. But the examples in the post I replied to higher in this chain are nothing like this.
- munchbunny 8y ago
  You're missing some important context then. "Hot" is not a compliment when an investor says this about you, because that's not a trait that matters as a startup founder, and because of the boys club atmosphere that pervades some parts of the VC world, it carries the strong implication that an irrelevant trait is getting in the way of your purpose for being there. If you look at the example the parent poster gave, that's exactly the implication. "Oh, you're way too hot to be a startup founder, what are you doing here?"
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  It's not actually a complement though. They're basically saying "I value your presence here because of your appearance, not because of your ideas". Let's give another example of a complement that really isn't: "Wow, it's nice to see some black people at this event for once". It's a positive statement, sure, but it's not an appropriate comment to make. Can you understand how this belittles people?
- itronitron 8y ago
  If you consider the difference between your two examples, the French man and the black man, I think you may see how one would be more put off than the other by the uncomfortable compliment. Specifically, within the United States (and other countries as well) the black man has been historically disenfrachised and therefore any comment/compliment that they do not belong there will not be well received. The 'too xyz to be here' comment is typically made by people that aren't in a position to judge, possibly for a number of reasons.

Scalestein 8y ago

Describing someone as 'hot' or generally commenting on their appearance when it isn't relevant is a form of objectification. A woman (or man) is at an event to discuss ideas or their company and the first thing someone says to them is about their physical appearance. This is very discouraging to people who have it happen to them very frequently. Assuming you are a man, imagine being at an event and someone coming up and saying something like, "Woah get a load of Fabio over here". Being compared to Fabio might be a compliment in an objective physical sense, but I'm sure that isn't what you want to talk about when you are trying to get funding or make connections.

Chris_Chambers 8y ago
>Describing someone as 'hot' or generally commenting on their appearance when it isn't relevant is a form of objectification. No, it isn’t. It’s a form of flirting. >This is very discouraging to people who have it happen to them very frequently. No, it isn’t. The opposite is true. The more often something happens to you, the better you get at dealing with it, and before long you’re an expert at pulling the punch and twisting the scenario in your favor.
XCabbage 8y ago
I'm not sure what any of this has to do with my comment that you're replying to. Nothing in it defends commenting on people's appearance or implies that I disagree with anything you've said here.