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If we're using a system that puts catcalling in the same bucket as actual rape, that's a little bit of a problem. Catcalling is offensive, tasteless, and disgus

If we're using a system that puts catcalling in the same bucket as actual rape, that's a little bit of a problem. Catcalling is offensive, tasteless, and disgusting, but it's not the same as forcing someone to have sex with you. I support laws against catcalling, or enforcing existing harassment laws to include catcalling. But you really lose me when you try to put saying anything--no matter how offensive or even illegal--in the same bucket as doing physical violence to another person. I think this is where the #metoo movement and other groups that promote women's safety and well-being lose a lot of support from people who would otherwise be in agreement with them. I can go really far supporting laws to protect women from all kinds of awful things. But I can't really stretch reality far enough to say that saying something is the same as raping someone.

onion2k 8y ago
If we're using a system that puts catcalling in the same bucket as actual rape, that's a little bit of a problem. Catcalling is offensive, tasteless, and disgusting, but it's not the same as forcing someone to have sex with you. No one is suggesting catcalling is the same as rape; people are suggesting they're both in the same category. To use an analogy, a Ford Fiesta and a Ferrari FXX aren't going to compete in a race together but they're both cars.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  To use an analogy, a Ford Fiesta and a Ferrari FXX aren't going to compete in a race together but they're both cars. To use an analogy, public urination and murder aren't doing to result in the same penalties but they're both crimes.
  - neom 8y ago
    Sure, but in the context of workplace harassment catcalling and rape would be in the same category, fireable offenses, no?
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      Sure, but in the context of criminal law, public urination and murder would be in the same category, offenses that can get you arrested, no? There is an unsavory political/propaganda purpose to putting catcalling and rape in the same category. The eliding of crimes of vastly differing degrees of severity is another warping of law enforcement and the judiciary which totalitarian states have used to oppress individuals. To do the constant work against this, we need to be careful about distinctions.
      - neom 8y ago
        That's a fine perspective. While I do think catcalling should be illegal, I don't think it should carry the same punishment. Never the less, we're still talking about workspace harassment here.
        stcredzero 8y ago
        If we lose such distinctions in the workplace, then there will just be context-specific oppression in the workplace. Livelihood is a major part of life. The spirit of such principles should be in force everywhere of importance in a free society. A free, liberal society accomplishes by convincing and by choice what an oppressive society accomplishes by heavy-handed imposition and coercion. Pay attention to what you're really asking for. It may well be around long enough to be used against you.
        neom 8y ago
        I'm well aware of what I'm wishing for. No need to be condenseding. I certainly don't presume you and I would see eye to eye on the society I'd build.
        stcredzero 8y ago
        I'm well aware of what I'm wishing for. No need to be condenseding. What would happen if your tools were used against you? I certainly don't presume you and I would see eye to eye on the society I'd build. Do you imagine your faction would be in charge? It certainly sounds like you do. "Revolutions are often initiated by idealists, carried out by fanatics and hijacked by scoundrels." -- Thomas Carlylse
neom 8y ago
I wasn't suggesting catcalling is the same as rape; I was suggesting they're both in the same category. To use an analogy, a Ford Fiesta and a Ferrari FXX aren't going to compete in a race together but they're both cars.

onion2k 8y ago

If we're using a system that puts catcalling in the same bucket as actual rape, that's a little bit of a problem. Catcalling is offensive, tasteless, and disgusting, but it's not the same as forcing someone to have sex with you. No one is suggesting catcalling is the same as rape; people are suggesting they're both in the same category. To use an analogy, a Ford Fiesta and a Ferrari FXX aren't going to compete in a race together but they're both cars.

stcredzero 8y ago
To use an analogy, a Ford Fiesta and a Ferrari FXX aren't going to compete in a race together but they're both cars. To use an analogy, public urination and murder aren't doing to result in the same penalties but they're both crimes.
- neom 8y ago
  Sure, but in the context of workplace harassment catcalling and rape would be in the same category, fireable offenses, no?
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    Sure, but in the context of criminal law, public urination and murder would be in the same category, offenses that can get you arrested, no? There is an unsavory political/propaganda purpose to putting catcalling and rape in the same category. The eliding of crimes of vastly differing degrees of severity is another warping of law enforcement and the judiciary which totalitarian states have used to oppress individuals. To do the constant work against this, we need to be careful about distinctions.
    - neom 8y ago
      That's a fine perspective. While I do think catcalling should be illegal, I don't think it should carry the same punishment. Never the less, we're still talking about workspace harassment here.
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        If we lose such distinctions in the workplace, then there will just be context-specific oppression in the workplace. Livelihood is a major part of life. The spirit of such principles should be in force everywhere of importance in a free society. A free, liberal society accomplishes by convincing and by choice what an oppressive society accomplishes by heavy-handed imposition and coercion. Pay attention to what you're really asking for. It may well be around long enough to be used against you.
        neom 8y ago
        I'm well aware of what I'm wishing for. No need to be condenseding. I certainly don't presume you and I would see eye to eye on the society I'd build.
        stcredzero 8y ago
        I'm well aware of what I'm wishing for. No need to be condenseding. What would happen if your tools were used against you? I certainly don't presume you and I would see eye to eye on the society I'd build. Do you imagine your faction would be in charge? It certainly sounds like you do. "Revolutions are often initiated by idealists, carried out by fanatics and hijacked by scoundrels." -- Thomas Carlylse

neom 8y ago

I wasn't suggesting catcalling is the same as rape; I was suggesting they're both in the same category. To use an analogy, a Ford Fiesta and a Ferrari FXX aren't going to compete in a race together but they're both cars.