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It was also morally unfashionable to criticize liberating the slaves in the Northern states. So, thankfully, "moral fashion" presided in that case. In the Me T

It was also morally unfashionable to criticize liberating the slaves in the Northern states. So, thankfully, "moral fashion" presided in that case. In the Me Too social justice movement, for instance, Things You Can't Say come in two varieties: Just as men feel their nuanced opinions are misinterpreted and shamed, women too feel their experiences are doubted or ignored. I think it's also important to note that exactly one of the two "sides" of this movement has historically been a marginalized group. That in of itself is not sufficient to make an opinion, so do your own research of course.

sheepmullet 8y ago
> I think it's also important to note that exactly one of the two "sides" of this movement has historically been a marginalized group According to social justice ideology.
- jawarner 8y ago
  Interesting. So, for instance, you are aware that women did not have the fight to vote until 1920. Is your belief that women have never been marginalized? Or that they used to be, but in quantitative terms this group by now in 2018 has attained an equal amount of power?
  - sheepmullet 8y ago
    > you are aware that women did not have the fight to vote until 1920. And? I didn’t have the right to vote until I immigrated to America. > Is your belief that women have never been marginalized? Throughout history lots of people have had a shit time. Some groups worse than others. I think there is a lot to unpack in your statement. Marginalized as compared to who?
    - sheepmullet 8y ago
      To expand on this for example in the US we have an interesting history of lynching black men based on the accusations of white women.
      - CocaKoala 8y ago
        "Women are and have been marginalized in the US" is not a statement which is mutually exclusive with "Black people are and have been marginalized in the US", so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
        sheepmullet 8y ago
        > so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. The poster I am replying to claimed: > important to note that exactly one of the two "sides" I.e. they were making a mutually exclusive claim.
        CocaKoala 8y ago
        So are you saying that the two sides of the "Me Too" movement are "All Women" and "Black Men"? Because otherwise, I still don't understand your point.
        sheepmullet 8y ago
        The two sides in this context are men and women. Which group do you think black men belong to?
        CocaKoala 8y ago
        I'm still confused. Are you saying that "Black Men" and "Men" are the same group?
        CocaKoala 8y ago
        And, just so that I make this clear: you've tried to imply several times with your argument that women aren't marginalized, but you've done this purely by bringing up other groups that are marginalized (Women couldn't vote? neither could I, until I immigrated. Women are marginalized? What about the poor black men who were lynched on nothing but the word of a white woman?) and at no point have you addressed the fact that marginalization isn't a binary thing; there's more than two levels of marginalization, and just because some other group was _also_ marginalized, that doesn't mean that it didn't happen to women too. You've neatly sidestepped addressing this on the times that I've brought it up, which is why I keep on harping on this point. There are two possible reasons you're doing this: one is that you legitimately didn't realize that marginalization has multiple levels, in which case maybe you should take a moment to think about the history of the world and the various forms oppression has taken, and the other is that you're deliberately making a bad-faith argument. I'd certainly hope you're not arguing in bad faith, because that would be incredibly rude, but I wanted to make sure I called out what you were doing (and failing to do) to make it clear to anybody who wanders by and reads the argument.

sheepmullet 8y ago

> I think it's also important to note that exactly one of the two "sides" of this movement has historically been a marginalized group According to social justice ideology.

jawarner 8y ago
Interesting. So, for instance, you are aware that women did not have the fight to vote until 1920. Is your belief that women have never been marginalized? Or that they used to be, but in quantitative terms this group by now in 2018 has attained an equal amount of power?
- sheepmullet 8y ago
  > you are aware that women did not have the fight to vote until 1920. And? I didn’t have the right to vote until I immigrated to America. > Is your belief that women have never been marginalized? Throughout history lots of people have had a shit time. Some groups worse than others. I think there is a lot to unpack in your statement. Marginalized as compared to who?
  - sheepmullet 8y ago
    To expand on this for example in the US we have an interesting history of lynching black men based on the accusations of white women.
    - CocaKoala 8y ago
      "Women are and have been marginalized in the US" is not a statement which is mutually exclusive with "Black people are and have been marginalized in the US", so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
      - sheepmullet 8y ago
        > so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. The poster I am replying to claimed: > important to note that exactly one of the two "sides" I.e. they were making a mutually exclusive claim.
        CocaKoala 8y ago
        So are you saying that the two sides of the "Me Too" movement are "All Women" and "Black Men"? Because otherwise, I still don't understand your point.
        sheepmullet 8y ago
        The two sides in this context are men and women. Which group do you think black men belong to?
        CocaKoala 8y ago
        I'm still confused. Are you saying that "Black Men" and "Men" are the same group?
        CocaKoala 8y ago
        And, just so that I make this clear: you've tried to imply several times with your argument that women aren't marginalized, but you've done this purely by bringing up other groups that are marginalized (Women couldn't vote? neither could I, until I immigrated. Women are marginalized? What about the poor black men who were lynched on nothing but the word of a white woman?) and at no point have you addressed the fact that marginalization isn't a binary thing; there's more than two levels of marginalization, and just because some other group was _also_ marginalized, that doesn't mean that it didn't happen to women too. You've neatly sidestepped addressing this on the times that I've brought it up, which is why I keep on harping on this point. There are two possible reasons you're doing this: one is that you legitimately didn't realize that marginalization has multiple levels, in which case maybe you should take a moment to think about the history of the world and the various forms oppression has taken, and the other is that you're deliberately making a bad-faith argument. I'd certainly hope you're not arguing in bad faith, because that would be incredibly rude, but I wanted to make sure I called out what you were doing (and failing to do) to make it clear to anybody who wanders by and reads the argument.