6 ms·

could you give some examples of people being fired for "relatively minor violations"?

by natestemen 8y ago

dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
What about a Python conference and two guys joking about forking a repo?
- drewrv 8y ago
  The woman who called them out also got fired. And swarmed with rape/death threats too.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
    This doesn't change the fact much. Moreover, later it turned out she misunderstood the part about forking. Which leads to the question: do we accept the world in which someone can be fired because of a false accusation? Can we really call it “progressive”?
    - drewrv 8y ago
      It changes the narrative of "liberal bullies are ruining our dongle jokes". The fact that a woman was fired for trying to make our industry more inclusive shows we're not a leftie monoculture. The fact that she was subjected to rape and death threats shows there's a lot of toxic misogyny in our industry. It can be simultaneously true that people are afraid to talk because of SJWs criticizing them, and also they can be afraid to talk because right wing trolls will target them for harassment. Who in their right mind would want to risk being the next Zoë Quinn?
      - dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
        I agree both scenarios are toxic. But there might be a possibility worth considering that one fuels the other.
livestyle 8y ago
Andrew Torba former YC'er got kicked out for triggering other YC alum for saying "Build the Wall" - or we can go w/ Brendan Eich getting booted from Mozilla. The list can go on and on and on. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/04/mozilla-ceo-resignation-free-speech/7328759/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/04/mozill... https://www.facebook.com/garry/posts/10102671732962523?pnref=story https://www.facebook.com/garry/posts/10102671732962523?pnref...
- tehwebguy 8y ago
  Is there some reason you got the impression that Torba was kicked "for saying build the wall" and not for being a huge jerk to people on social?
  - livestyle 8y ago
    "John Levy called me and said that because I said "build the wall" I am now removed from the network"
    - tehwebguy 8y ago
      “The main thing I want to get across here is: we believe that everyone is entitled to their political beliefs and they are welcome to support the political candidates of their choosing. Having an honest, rational dialogue between all parts of the political spectrum is going to be important for us as a country moving forward. But under no circumstances do we tolerate harassing or threatening other founders (or anyone for that matter). Regardless of what you believe, if you act in a hostile way that makes the community feel unsafe, you will be ejected from the YC community.” https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-from-y-combinator/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-...
- chickenfries 8y ago
  Clearly it wasn't just saying "build the wall," from your own link: > All of you: fuck off. Take your morally superior, elitist, virtue signaling bullshit and shove it. > I call it like I see it, and I helped meme a President into office, cucks. > I could give a shit less about your respect for me or anyone else's. Build the wall is exactly what the fuck it means: build the wall. At almost any office job in America this is not an acceptable way to talk to your colleagues. At what programming job am I allowed to call people cucks for disagreeing with my politics?
nostromo 8y ago
Dean Mary Spellman at Claremont McKenna was forced out by an angry mob for writing an email to a Latina student in which she thanked the student for writing about her experience and expressed how she wants to further engage her. However, she apparently included a "microagression" when saying that the student didn't "fit the mold" of their traditional student. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-claremont-marches-20151112-story.html http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-claremont-marche... Here's the offending email: https://claremontindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/12238130_972503272791670_491597233384897364_o.jpg https://claremontindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/... Just recently, while he wasn't fired, Scott Kelly apologized to an angry mob for daring to quote Winston Churchill. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45789819 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45789819
weberc2 8y ago
The Christakises were driven out of Yale for politely suggesting that the university shouldn't police Halloween costumes. I'm not trivializing the offense either, the letter which caused the outrage is publicly available.
- natestemen 8y ago
  im completely fine with getting rid of people who want to dress up as nazis for halloween.
Zelphyr 8y ago
I know two people who have been fired for saying things that are offensive but were innocently said. Meaning, they genuinely didn't understand that what they were saying was offensive to someone. In one case, that person was upset and ashamed of themselves for having possibly caused distress of people they respected. In another case, it caused them to dig their heels in to the opposite side of the debate. In both cases, I can't help but think those were great opportunities to educate those people. Pull them to the side and patiently say, "Hey, what you said was offensive and hurtful and here is why...". I'm certain that the one who dug in their heels would've received that conversation in a more constructive way. As it was, firing that person for such a relatively minor offense created a new Republican.
- natestemen 8y ago
  to me, action matters more than intent. i understand sometimes people make mistakes, but sometimes those mistakes could've been avoided if they spent any time learning about current issues. in not spending time learning about these things they are putting themselves up to say some dumb shit. obviously its hard to say what should happen in these cases, and i do think we should try and educate people when they want, but its also not the job of marginalized people to educate others on how what they said was offensive.
  - Zelphyr 8y ago
    And that's fine. People should be held responsible for their actions. But my point is this; when the default is to use a machete when a scalpel would have sufficed then the net result is not going to pleasant.

could you give some examples of people being fired for "relatively minor violations"?

dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago

What about a Python conference and two guys joking about forking a repo?

drewrv 8y ago
The woman who called them out also got fired. And swarmed with rape/death threats too.
- dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
  This doesn't change the fact much. Moreover, later it turned out she misunderstood the part about forking. Which leads to the question: do we accept the world in which someone can be fired because of a false accusation? Can we really call it “progressive”?
  - drewrv 8y ago
    It changes the narrative of "liberal bullies are ruining our dongle jokes". The fact that a woman was fired for trying to make our industry more inclusive shows we're not a leftie monoculture. The fact that she was subjected to rape and death threats shows there's a lot of toxic misogyny in our industry. It can be simultaneously true that people are afraid to talk because of SJWs criticizing them, and also they can be afraid to talk because right wing trolls will target them for harassment. Who in their right mind would want to risk being the next Zoë Quinn?
    - dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
      I agree both scenarios are toxic. But there might be a possibility worth considering that one fuels the other.

livestyle 8y ago

Andrew Torba former YC'er got kicked out for triggering other YC alum for saying "Build the Wall" - or we can go w/ Brendan Eich getting booted from Mozilla. The list can go on and on and on. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/04/mozilla-ceo-resignation-free-speech/7328759/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/04/mozill... https://www.facebook.com/garry/posts/10102671732962523?pnref=story https://www.facebook.com/garry/posts/10102671732962523?pnref...

tehwebguy 8y ago
Is there some reason you got the impression that Torba was kicked "for saying build the wall" and not for being a huge jerk to people on social?
- livestyle 8y ago
  "John Levy called me and said that because I said "build the wall" I am now removed from the network"
  - tehwebguy 8y ago
    “The main thing I want to get across here is: we believe that everyone is entitled to their political beliefs and they are welcome to support the political candidates of their choosing. Having an honest, rational dialogue between all parts of the political spectrum is going to be important for us as a country moving forward. But under no circumstances do we tolerate harassing or threatening other founders (or anyone for that matter). Regardless of what you believe, if you act in a hostile way that makes the community feel unsafe, you will be ejected from the YC community.” https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-from-y-combinator/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-...
chickenfries 8y ago
Clearly it wasn't just saying "build the wall," from your own link: > All of you: fuck off. Take your morally superior, elitist, virtue signaling bullshit and shove it. > I call it like I see it, and I helped meme a President into office, cucks. > I could give a shit less about your respect for me or anyone else's. Build the wall is exactly what the fuck it means: build the wall. At almost any office job in America this is not an acceptable way to talk to your colleagues. At what programming job am I allowed to call people cucks for disagreeing with my politics?

nostromo 8y ago

Dean Mary Spellman at Claremont McKenna was forced out by an angry mob for writing an email to a Latina student in which she thanked the student for writing about her experience and expressed how she wants to further engage her. However, she apparently included a "microagression" when saying that the student didn't "fit the mold" of their traditional student. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-claremont-marches-20151112-story.html http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-claremont-marche... Here's the offending email: https://claremontindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/12238130_972503272791670_491597233384897364_o.jpg https://claremontindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/... Just recently, while he wasn't fired, Scott Kelly apologized to an angry mob for daring to quote Winston Churchill. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45789819 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45789819

weberc2 8y ago

The Christakises were driven out of Yale for politely suggesting that the university shouldn't police Halloween costumes. I'm not trivializing the offense either, the letter which caused the outrage is publicly available.

natestemen 8y ago
im completely fine with getting rid of people who want to dress up as nazis for halloween.

Zelphyr 8y ago

I know two people who have been fired for saying things that are offensive but were innocently said. Meaning, they genuinely didn't understand that what they were saying was offensive to someone. In one case, that person was upset and ashamed of themselves for having possibly caused distress of people they respected. In another case, it caused them to dig their heels in to the opposite side of the debate. In both cases, I can't help but think those were great opportunities to educate those people. Pull them to the side and patiently say, "Hey, what you said was offensive and hurtful and here is why...". I'm certain that the one who dug in their heels would've received that conversation in a more constructive way. As it was, firing that person for such a relatively minor offense created a new Republican.

natestemen 8y ago
to me, action matters more than intent. i understand sometimes people make mistakes, but sometimes those mistakes could've been avoided if they spent any time learning about current issues. in not spending time learning about these things they are putting themselves up to say some dumb shit. obviously its hard to say what should happen in these cases, and i do think we should try and educate people when they want, but its also not the job of marginalized people to educate others on how what they said was offensive.
- Zelphyr 8y ago
  And that's fine. People should be held responsible for their actions. But my point is this; when the default is to use a machete when a scalpel would have sufficed then the net result is not going to pleasant.