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> In a system with perfect proportionality rather having systematic misrepresentation, sure; actual representative democracies tend to have structural biases fa

> In a system with perfect proportionality rather having systematic misrepresentation, sure; actual representative democracies tend to have structural biases favoring particular interests which means opposition to those interests often cannot succeed through voting merely with majority support In other words, small parties with little to no support can't just dictate their will onto the majority. That's a feature, not a bug.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> In other words, small parties with little to no support can't just dictate their will onto the majority. No, exactly the opposite: a minority that is structurally favored by the biases in the system of representation, can dictate their will over the objections of the majority.
- geezerjay 8y ago
  > No, exactly the opposite: a minority Nonsense. In democratic republics, which are the norm in the West, the people pick their representatives and both the legislative and executive branches are determined by that vote. It makes no sense to try to turn around the facts to pretend that democratic governments are not voted in by the majority but instead by a minority. That's absurd and has no bearing in reality.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > In democratic republics, which are the norm in the West, the people pick their representatives and both the legislative and executive branches are determined by that vote. And in real, rather than idealized, democratic republics, there are often systematic distortions in representation favoring certain identifiable interests, allowing those interests to attain controlling power with a minority of the vote. As stated above, the US federal government provides a good example of this. > It makes no sense to try to turn around the facts to pretend that democratic governments are not voted in by the majority but instead by a minority. Both the current President of the US and the current Senate majority were voted in by outright minorities. The House majority was voted in by a plurality, but still the majority faction is substantially overepresented even if you consider only the ratio of major party votes. > That's absurd and has no bearing in reality. The current US government may be absurd, but it is absolutely reality, and not unique among democratic republics in history in being elected despite not commanding majority support in the electorate. Denying reality isn't productive.
tracker1 8y ago
Tell that to the majority of people in favor of net neutrality.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> In other words, small parties with little to no support can't just dictate their will onto the majority. No, exactly the opposite: a minority that is structurally favored by the biases in the system of representation, can dictate their will over the objections of the majority.

geezerjay 8y ago
> No, exactly the opposite: a minority Nonsense. In democratic republics, which are the norm in the West, the people pick their representatives and both the legislative and executive branches are determined by that vote. It makes no sense to try to turn around the facts to pretend that democratic governments are not voted in by the majority but instead by a minority. That's absurd and has no bearing in reality.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > In democratic republics, which are the norm in the West, the people pick their representatives and both the legislative and executive branches are determined by that vote. And in real, rather than idealized, democratic republics, there are often systematic distortions in representation favoring certain identifiable interests, allowing those interests to attain controlling power with a minority of the vote. As stated above, the US federal government provides a good example of this. > It makes no sense to try to turn around the facts to pretend that democratic governments are not voted in by the majority but instead by a minority. Both the current President of the US and the current Senate majority were voted in by outright minorities. The House majority was voted in by a plurality, but still the majority faction is substantially overepresented even if you consider only the ratio of major party votes. > That's absurd and has no bearing in reality. The current US government may be absurd, but it is absolutely reality, and not unique among democratic republics in history in being elected despite not commanding majority support in the electorate. Denying reality isn't productive.

tracker1 8y ago

Tell that to the majority of people in favor of net neutrality.