4 ms·

1984 and BNW remain the two real standouts of dystopian fiction. 1984 always felt the more powerful of the two to me: it's starker, more overtly shocking. BNW i

1984 and BNW remain the two real standouts of dystopian fiction. 1984 always felt the more powerful of the two to me: it's starker, more overtly shocking. BNW is subtler, but for probably most cultures it rings more true to real life as it's turned out this far. Today we see aspects of both novels in play: echoes of 1984's Two Minutes Hate when politicians rail against immigrants, the rise of "Fake News" and anti-vax calling into question to a scary extent of the population what's real, and the fact we do seem to have always been at war with Eastasia; and from BNW, the electorate largely subdued by TV, social media, fashion and being obedient consumers - and with legalisation of cannabis increasingly a thing the comparison to SOMA isn't too big a stretch. What to do about this, of course, is plainly way above my pay grade, and probably involves educating the electorate (UK and US probably both going backwards in this regard, given Brexit and Trump) - but suffice it to say both novels remain a must-read even 70 - 80 years after they were written. They're very accessible, readable books too FWIW if anyone is hesitating, intimidated by their rep.

magduf 8y ago
>What to do about this, of course, is plainly way above my pay grade, and probably involves educating the electorate (UK and US probably both going backwards in this regard, given Brexit and Trump) There's nothing that can be done about it. You can't just magically educate an electorate; that's a change that takes a generation or three.
- brianmcc 8y ago
  True. And honestly I'd say it's even worse than that, people are somehow finding ways to travel backwards in terms of knowledge, and other - truly despicable - people are profiting from pushing them in that direction. Movements like anti-vax, flat earthers, birthers from the Obama time: politicized backwards trajectory. Terrifying.
  - magduf 8y ago
    Well, history shows us that this kind of thing happens from time to time. No society continues upward indefinitely; they all collapse at some point, or at least regress while other societies overtake them. This happened famously to the Romans, where they lost specialization of labor and technology and turned into feudal serfs. It happened to the Hittites, whose culture we have little left from. China turned inward for centuries until around WWII. Later, under Mao, they oppressed educated people, putting them to work in the fields instead of using their talents; only recently have they recovered from that stupidity. Britain used to be the world's most powerful empire and look what happened there. And you're absolutely right about truly despicable people profiting from this. I think Alex Jones is a prime example of this. I know someone who's a big fan of his; it's really discouraging how even a reasonably intelligent (but fairly gullible) person can be taken by a con-artist like him and even people close to them can't sway their opinion.
bluntfang 8y ago
>with legalisation of cannabis increasingly a thing the comparison to SOMA isn't too big a stretch. I'd go further and relate it directly to MDMA, LSD, and other drugs. The government knowns about Burning Man, music festivals, etc. If they really didn't want people doing these drugs do you think these events would be allowed to happen?
- brianmcc 8y ago
  You're not the first to make the link: https://www.somarecords.com/ https://www.somarecords.com/ Here in the UK in the 90s the Govt tried really quite hard to shut down "raves": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_and_Public_Order_Act_1994 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_and_Public_Or... Glasgow lost its legendary Arches venue very recently, arguably the single best clubbing venue in Scotland, due specifically to these kinds of concerns. I think a certain amount of "youthful exuberance" is indeed tolerated - but go too far and Thou Shalt Often Be Shut Down.
  - bluntfang 8y ago
    >I think a certain amount of "youthful exuberance" is indeed tolerated - but go too far and Thou Shalt Often Be Shut Down. Living in Boston I see the revolving music venue scene. It seems like about every ~5 years or so the well known venues close down for whatever reason (mismanagement, fallout from harassment/drug use, etc) and another one pops up to fill the void. It seems like getting shut down is a power check from the government to keep us complacent, as the next scene will appear and be just as much as a Time and Place as the one before it.

magduf 8y ago

>What to do about this, of course, is plainly way above my pay grade, and probably involves educating the electorate (UK and US probably both going backwards in this regard, given Brexit and Trump) There's nothing that can be done about it. You can't just magically educate an electorate; that's a change that takes a generation or three.

brianmcc 8y ago
True. And honestly I'd say it's even worse than that, people are somehow finding ways to travel backwards in terms of knowledge, and other - truly despicable - people are profiting from pushing them in that direction. Movements like anti-vax, flat earthers, birthers from the Obama time: politicized backwards trajectory. Terrifying.
- magduf 8y ago
  Well, history shows us that this kind of thing happens from time to time. No society continues upward indefinitely; they all collapse at some point, or at least regress while other societies overtake them. This happened famously to the Romans, where they lost specialization of labor and technology and turned into feudal serfs. It happened to the Hittites, whose culture we have little left from. China turned inward for centuries until around WWII. Later, under Mao, they oppressed educated people, putting them to work in the fields instead of using their talents; only recently have they recovered from that stupidity. Britain used to be the world's most powerful empire and look what happened there. And you're absolutely right about truly despicable people profiting from this. I think Alex Jones is a prime example of this. I know someone who's a big fan of his; it's really discouraging how even a reasonably intelligent (but fairly gullible) person can be taken by a con-artist like him and even people close to them can't sway their opinion.

bluntfang 8y ago

>with legalisation of cannabis increasingly a thing the comparison to SOMA isn't too big a stretch. I'd go further and relate it directly to MDMA, LSD, and other drugs. The government knowns about Burning Man, music festivals, etc. If they really didn't want people doing these drugs do you think these events would be allowed to happen?

brianmcc 8y ago
You're not the first to make the link: https://www.somarecords.com/ https://www.somarecords.com/ Here in the UK in the 90s the Govt tried really quite hard to shut down "raves": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_and_Public_Order_Act_1994 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_and_Public_Or... Glasgow lost its legendary Arches venue very recently, arguably the single best clubbing venue in Scotland, due specifically to these kinds of concerns. I think a certain amount of "youthful exuberance" is indeed tolerated - but go too far and Thou Shalt Often Be Shut Down.
- bluntfang 8y ago
  >I think a certain amount of "youthful exuberance" is indeed tolerated - but go too far and Thou Shalt Often Be Shut Down. Living in Boston I see the revolving music venue scene. It seems like about every ~5 years or so the well known venues close down for whatever reason (mismanagement, fallout from harassment/drug use, etc) and another one pops up to fill the void. It seems like getting shut down is a power check from the government to keep us complacent, as the next scene will appear and be just as much as a Time and Place as the one before it.