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As for statist libertarian, I only partly agree. I think you can both have a democracy and a political system that is fairly libertarian. I depends what you cal

by nickik 8y ago

As for statist libertarian, I only partly agree. I think you can both have a democracy and a political system that is fairly libertarian. I depends what you call a democracy, a pure 51% majority rule, then its true, but in my opinion that is equally as immoral as a libertarian state. However, I do think that a combination of democracy and a founding system, constitution or whatever can be better. Switzerland is a example of a country that is very democratic but its more libertarian in many ways then most other democracies. That has probably to do with the way the system is set up outside of the pure democracy idea. Not sure why you claim anarchist libertarian society is not possible, seems that has little to do with your post.

harryh 8y ago
US Government spending as a % of GDP: 37.6% Switzerland government spending as a % of GDP: 34% https://data.oecd.org/gga/general-government-spending.htm https://data.oecd.org/gga/general-government-spending.htm Strip out the military (where the US spends quite a bit maintaining global hegemony), and the Swiss have a bigger government than the US.
- nickik 8y ago
  Yes, and Switzerland and US both are pretty small. Compare Switzerland to the countries around it. My point was not that Switzerland is a libertarian paradise but rather that it is not true that more democracy makes the government larger.
rayiner 8y ago
> Not sure why you claim anarchist libertarian society is not possible, seems that has little to do with your post. Anarchist libertarianism solves the moral quandry of statist libertarianism, which is imposing a state on people but restricting the ability of people to use their vote to create a big government. I just don’t think it’s possible and would inevitably degenerate into feudalism. Central to anarchist libertarianism is the idea that coercion through violence is wrongful. True or not, violence is one of the most basic interactions that exists between oeganisms. You can’t wish it away, just control it by e.g. consolidating it into a State that has greater power to exercise violence than any group of individuals.
- nickik 8y ago
  I didn't really want to into argument about libertarian anarchism but I just didn't see your point directly relating to the rest of your post. But your argument, inherent bias toward centralisation is the old and traditional argument that statist libertarian also use. Nozick is most well known for that argument. I don't want to really argue for it to much, just want to make clear that, its not about 'wishing' anything away. Violence is reduced if some level of balance of power exists and conflict resumption is available and the believe is that this could exist without government. As this is Hacker News its not the place for this argument, I would just recommend 'Anarchy and the Law: The Political Economy of Choice' as a great book on this. It includes chapters by different people arguing the two positions, and some other nice content about the subject.

by nickik 8y ago

harryh 8y ago

US Government spending as a % of GDP: 37.6% Switzerland government spending as a % of GDP: 34% https://data.oecd.org/gga/general-government-spending.htm https://data.oecd.org/gga/general-government-spending.htm Strip out the military (where the US spends quite a bit maintaining global hegemony), and the Swiss have a bigger government than the US.

nickik 8y ago
Yes, and Switzerland and US both are pretty small. Compare Switzerland to the countries around it. My point was not that Switzerland is a libertarian paradise but rather that it is not true that more democracy makes the government larger.

rayiner 8y ago

> Not sure why you claim anarchist libertarian society is not possible, seems that has little to do with your post. Anarchist libertarianism solves the moral quandry of statist libertarianism, which is imposing a state on people but restricting the ability of people to use their vote to create a big government. I just don’t think it’s possible and would inevitably degenerate into feudalism. Central to anarchist libertarianism is the idea that coercion through violence is wrongful. True or not, violence is one of the most basic interactions that exists between oeganisms. You can’t wish it away, just control it by e.g. consolidating it into a State that has greater power to exercise violence than any group of individuals.

nickik 8y ago
I didn't really want to into argument about libertarian anarchism but I just didn't see your point directly relating to the rest of your post. But your argument, inherent bias toward centralisation is the old and traditional argument that statist libertarian also use. Nozick is most well known for that argument. I don't want to really argue for it to much, just want to make clear that, its not about 'wishing' anything away. Violence is reduced if some level of balance of power exists and conflict resumption is available and the believe is that this could exist without government. As this is Hacker News its not the place for this argument, I would just recommend 'Anarchy and the Law: The Political Economy of Choice' as a great book on this. It includes chapters by different people arguing the two positions, and some other nice content about the subject.