3 ms·

::, & (pass by ref?), ! (macros), {:?}, _ => (), whatever is happening in this example with <T> and [T]: fn largest<T>(list: &[T]) -> T { To be fair, some of t

by wycy 8y ago

::, & (pass by ref?), ! (macros), {:?}, _ => (), whatever is happening in this example with <T> and [T]: fn largest<T>(list: &[T]) -> T { To be fair, some of these are in Zig too, such as &.

gnud 8y ago
I'm a rust newbie, but I have to disagree. Your "horror example" is actually very readable for most programmers familiar with either Java, C# or c++, I think. In java or C# it would be something like T largest<T>(T[] list) The major difference being the reference syntax in rust, but that's the price of explicit ownership/no GC. I love the fact that it's obvious where macros are being used. _, => and () are originally from ML, so I know it from my university days, but these days you also find some or all of them in C#, Java, Kotlin, ES6. So a lot of programmers have already been exposed to them.
steveklabnik 8y ago
Yeah, I guess * :: is the same as in many other languages * & too * ! is unique, I guess * The format string stuff is based on ... C#/Python stuff? I forget exactly. * _ => () is composing three other bits of syntax that aren't unusual on their own * <> is genrics, like in many languages * [T] is slices, which are not entirely unique but are also similar to array stuff which uses []s Thanks for elaborating, it's helpful to understand the perspective.
- Cyph0n 8y ago
  :: probably looks unfamiliar to anyone who hasn’t worked in C++, PHP, or Perl.
  - ternaryoperator 8y ago
    :: is used in Java too, ever since Java 8.
    - oblio 8y ago
      So 50% of Java devs :)
- kungtotte 8y ago
  It might be hard for someone who writes Rust every day to see it, but it has a lot of special characters compared to many languages. It also has less or equal amounts compared to other languages, of course, but I dislike that aspect of those languages too :) Compare these two listings: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Stack#Simple_implementation http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Stack#Simple_implementation http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Stack#Nim http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Stack#Nim You can see directly that Rust has a lot more there. Obviously Nim skips out on braces so that's a gimme, but I don't really count block braces when I'm talking about special characters. It's more stuff like Option<&'a Frame<T>> or &'a mut T or ->
  - steveklabnik 8y ago
    > It also has less or equal amounts compared to other languages, of course, but I dislike that aspect of those languages too :) Yeah, thanks, I think this is at the root of a lot of it. > It's more stuff like Option<&'a Frame<T>> or &'a mut T or -> Yeah; some of the stuff isn't needed anymore; you can drop the : 'a s, for example. And we have been talking about allowing some more elision, so pub struct Iter<'a, T: 'a> { next: Option<&'a Frame<T>>, } could be pub struct Iter<'_, T> { next: Option<&Frame<T>>, } when all is said and done. The '_ in the signature is important so that you know it's parameterized by a lifetime, so we don't plan on ever getting more concise than that.

by wycy 8y ago

::, & (pass by ref?), ! (macros), {:?}, _ => (), whatever is happening in this example with <T> and [T]: fn largest<T>(list: &[T]) -> T { To be fair, some of these are in Zig too, such as &.

gnud 8y ago

I'm a rust newbie, but I have to disagree. Your "horror example" is actually very readable for most programmers familiar with either Java, C# or c++, I think. In java or C# it would be something like T largest<T>(T[] list) The major difference being the reference syntax in rust, but that's the price of explicit ownership/no GC. I love the fact that it's obvious where macros are being used. _, => and () are originally from ML, so I know it from my university days, but these days you also find some or all of them in C#, Java, Kotlin, ES6. So a lot of programmers have already been exposed to them.

steveklabnik 8y ago

Yeah, I guess * :: is the same as in many other languages * & too * ! is unique, I guess * The format string stuff is based on ... C#/Python stuff? I forget exactly. * _ => () is composing three other bits of syntax that aren't unusual on their own * <> is genrics, like in many languages * [T] is slices, which are not entirely unique but are also similar to array stuff which uses []s Thanks for elaborating, it's helpful to understand the perspective.

Cyph0n 8y ago
:: probably looks unfamiliar to anyone who hasn’t worked in C++, PHP, or Perl.
- ternaryoperator 8y ago
  :: is used in Java too, ever since Java 8.
  - oblio 8y ago
    So 50% of Java devs :)
kungtotte 8y ago
It might be hard for someone who writes Rust every day to see it, but it has a lot of special characters compared to many languages. It also has less or equal amounts compared to other languages, of course, but I dislike that aspect of those languages too :) Compare these two listings: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Stack#Simple_implementation http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Stack#Simple_implementation http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Stack#Nim http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Stack#Nim You can see directly that Rust has a lot more there. Obviously Nim skips out on braces so that's a gimme, but I don't really count block braces when I'm talking about special characters. It's more stuff like Option<&'a Frame<T>> or &'a mut T or ->
- steveklabnik 8y ago
  > It also has less or equal amounts compared to other languages, of course, but I dislike that aspect of those languages too :) Yeah, thanks, I think this is at the root of a lot of it. > It's more stuff like Option<&'a Frame<T>> or &'a mut T or -> Yeah; some of the stuff isn't needed anymore; you can drop the : 'a s, for example. And we have been talking about allowing some more elision, so pub struct Iter<'a, T: 'a> { next: Option<&'a Frame<T>>, } could be pub struct Iter<'_, T> { next: Option<&Frame<T>>, } when all is said and done. The '_ in the signature is important so that you know it's parameterized by a lifetime, so we don't plan on ever getting more concise than that.