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I found this dropbox link to Ring's marketing video for Police Departments to use their smart video cameras for mass surveillance. This was made before Amazon

by _r3e4 8y ago

I found this dropbox link to Ring's marketing video for Police Departments to use their smart video cameras for mass surveillance. This was made before Amazon acquired them. At the end of the demo the CEO states that their facial recognition search feature will be available soon. This software is made in Ukraine and the hardware is manufactured in China. There was no private company contract bid - Ring is just giving this to cops for free and offering customers a discount for letting their video surveillance from their home / doorbell be shared with the police in this portal. over 50+ local police departments are now partners. There is no encryption. There is no 2FA. There is no legal protection for privacy of citizens face's caught in these cameras and added to their facial recognition algorithms. Ring Ukraine is hiring aggressively, they grew from 10 engineers to 500 in two years. It's one of the top image processing R&D labs in Eastern Europe. Based on their job descriptions.... the facial recognition search being deployed in the police portals of Ring is pretty advanced. for more on Ring Ukraine www.ring-ukraine.com I got this ring marketing video from officer.com / a website for police industry news.

fixermark 8y ago
> Ring is just giving this to cops for free and offering customers a discount for letting their video surveillance from their home / doorbell be shared with the police in this portal That's a hell of a market strategy. Do you have a source on that discount story? Because I'm not able to find one right now.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  Do you have a source on that discount story? Because I'm not able to find one right now. Not the OP, but my neighborhood's Nextdoor message board is filled with both Ring discounts, and pleas from the local PD for people to buy them. I have no proof that they're related, but if the marketing is being done through hyper-targeted methods like this, it might explain why it's not Googleable.
  - fixermark 8y ago
    I think I misunderstood OP's meaning. I though they were claiming the police were paying directly for video signal; it appears police or Ring are offering discounts to get the hardware in the belief that citizens will volunteer the video when the local police need help to stop a crime.
alphabettsy 8y ago
Huh? How did you get something entirely different from the article. The article says police will have access to the neighborhoods law enforcement portal, which only gives them access to public posts of Ring users. The only addition that the law enforcement portal appears to give is the fact that they can request video clips from homeowners. There are some valid concerns there but you’re mischaracterizing this tool and how it works.
Someone1234 8y ago
> There is no encryption. There is no 2FA. There is no legal protection for privacy of citizens face's caught in these cameras and added to their facial recognition algorithms. Those are some interesting claims. Where is this information sourced from?
- _r3e4 8y ago
  the engineering team
joering2 8y ago
> There is no encryption. There is no 2FA. There is no legal protection for privacy of citizens face's caught in these cameras and added to their facial recognition algorithms. Yes and no lawsuit will be won either. Every judge will strike it based on being in public assumption of lack of privacy. If you walk on public street, don't assume your privacy is protected :(
- monocasa 8y ago
  It's way more complex than that. For instance here the evidence from a webcam filming from a public vantage point was struck down. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/12/cops-illegally-nailed-webcam-to-utility-pole-for-6-weeks-to-spy-on-house/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/12/cops-illegally-n... I've also seen SCOTUS rulings that they see a difference between public ancillary recordings, and mass surveillance of all public actions.
  - joering2 8y ago
    Great example +1; however in this example cops assumed Mr. Vargas to commit crime and hence setup cam to watch aka surveillance his property 24/7. Very difference from situation where average citizens records their front yard 24/7 not expecting or assuming a crime will occur, and then having that video being obtained when the crime happens. In other words, this case is about active surveillance, versus Ring cams are more passive (record everything all the time for no specific reason)
    - balls187 8y ago
      Ring is marketed as a security camera, and one of it's primary use cases is providing video recording in the event of a crime.
      - joering2 8y ago
        Exactly! Not marketed as a tool to surveillance your neighbor 24/7.
- 8y ago
chaostheory 8y ago
I'm a Ring customer. The Ring Portal is optional and opt-in. People want this. This is similar but not the same as Yc's Flock https://www.flocksafety.com/ https://www.flocksafety.com/ but it doesn't require a home owner's association to set up and it's inexpensive. (Flock focuses on storing license plates.) Stuff like this helps police do something about robberies and burglaries. It's harder to ignore and file away when there's video evidence. Megapixel IP cameras are getting cheaper and cheaper every day. We already live in a mass surveillance society with microphones and cameras in almost all of our rooms, with some people even installing Echos in their bathrooms. Instead of bad Big Brother, we get helpful Little Sister (Alexa, Siri, Kortana, ...). imo The only real way to completely escape it, is to avoid technology and live outside of large metros; away from civilization
- kakarot 8y ago
  > The only real way to completely escape it, is to avoid technology and live outside of large metros; away from civilization This is an incredibly subservient, defeatist attitude. I do not allow devices like Alexa into my home. I do not own a smart TV. Besides studio recording equipment, the only microphone in my house is on my phone. If I have my own cameras, and a burglary takes place, I will share that part of the video with the local police. Letting them just hook in is positively insane. Saying it's OK to let Big Brother into my house on the basis of fear and because Little Sister is already there is not only completely irrational, but cowardly as well. As the saying goes, "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."
  - chaostheory 8y ago
    > This is an incredibly subservient, defeatist attitude. It's reality if you use a smart phone or own a tablet, or are around others that do. Do your friends and family own one? Do you not own and use a smart phone? You know the device that tracks your location and pushes your data to the cloud. Pretending that doesn't exist is just another instance of cognitive dissonance. Besides what happens when people take a picture of you? They post it to the cloud along with datetime and location data, and even names. A lot of people who value convenience above all do not realize what they are trading it for. Many of these people don't even realize that's what they value most. It's hard not to be in that category if you use almost any kind of cloud connected service. I'm only making blissfully ignorant people aware of it. Maybe you should reexamine the digital aspect of your own life before strongly judging me. > I do not allow devices like Alexa into my home. What about Siri, Google, or Kortana? Siri is on both iPhones and Macs now. Kortana is on every Win 10 machine. Google Assistant / Ok Google is on Chrome OS and Android. Do you own any IoT device? Even if they don't have a mic or camera, they can still track you and your habits. > "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security." I'm not sure how I've traded my liberty on this one. It's not like I voted for a Patriot Act, where I don't have a choice on what I'm willing to share. > Letting them just hook in is positively insane. If I have my own cameras, and a burglary takes place, I will share that part of the video with the local police. They don't "hook in". It's just NextDoor for Ring owners where it's easier to share video with other Ring owners and now police. You CAN pick and choose what you want to share on Ring Neighborhood. That's how it works. Again no one is forced to even join Ring Neighborhood and you pick and choose what you want to share. Most importantly, even after you join - you can opt out at anytime. People now have a better chance of getting police to deal with people who steal their packages.
zyren 8y ago
do you have a mirror to this? video has been taken down.
- zyren 8y ago
  found a mirror: https://vimeo.com/290482418 https://vimeo.com/290482418
conanbatt 8y ago
No encryption? You can siphon the videos from the ring device by just connecting on the same wifi? The concerns of allowing a surveillance state are real. I hope Jamie addresses all these concerns.

by _r3e4 8y ago

fixermark 8y ago

> Ring is just giving this to cops for free and offering customers a discount for letting their video surveillance from their home / doorbell be shared with the police in this portal That's a hell of a market strategy. Do you have a source on that discount story? Because I'm not able to find one right now.

reaperducer 8y ago
Do you have a source on that discount story? Because I'm not able to find one right now. Not the OP, but my neighborhood's Nextdoor message board is filled with both Ring discounts, and pleas from the local PD for people to buy them. I have no proof that they're related, but if the marketing is being done through hyper-targeted methods like this, it might explain why it's not Googleable.
- fixermark 8y ago
  I think I misunderstood OP's meaning. I though they were claiming the police were paying directly for video signal; it appears police or Ring are offering discounts to get the hardware in the belief that citizens will volunteer the video when the local police need help to stop a crime.

alphabettsy 8y ago

Huh? How did you get something entirely different from the article. The article says police will have access to the neighborhoods law enforcement portal, which only gives them access to public posts of Ring users. The only addition that the law enforcement portal appears to give is the fact that they can request video clips from homeowners. There are some valid concerns there but you’re mischaracterizing this tool and how it works.

Someone1234 8y ago

> There is no encryption. There is no 2FA. There is no legal protection for privacy of citizens face's caught in these cameras and added to their facial recognition algorithms. Those are some interesting claims. Where is this information sourced from?

_r3e4 8y ago
the engineering team

joering2 8y ago

> There is no encryption. There is no 2FA. There is no legal protection for privacy of citizens face's caught in these cameras and added to their facial recognition algorithms. Yes and no lawsuit will be won either. Every judge will strike it based on being in public assumption of lack of privacy. If you walk on public street, don't assume your privacy is protected :(

monocasa 8y ago
It's way more complex than that. For instance here the evidence from a webcam filming from a public vantage point was struck down. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/12/cops-illegally-nailed-webcam-to-utility-pole-for-6-weeks-to-spy-on-house/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/12/cops-illegally-n... I've also seen SCOTUS rulings that they see a difference between public ancillary recordings, and mass surveillance of all public actions.
- joering2 8y ago
  Great example +1; however in this example cops assumed Mr. Vargas to commit crime and hence setup cam to watch aka surveillance his property 24/7. Very difference from situation where average citizens records their front yard 24/7 not expecting or assuming a crime will occur, and then having that video being obtained when the crime happens. In other words, this case is about active surveillance, versus Ring cams are more passive (record everything all the time for no specific reason)
  - balls187 8y ago
    Ring is marketed as a security camera, and one of it's primary use cases is providing video recording in the event of a crime.
    - joering2 8y ago
      Exactly! Not marketed as a tool to surveillance your neighbor 24/7.
8y ago

chaostheory 8y ago

I'm a Ring customer. The Ring Portal is optional and opt-in. People want this. This is similar but not the same as Yc's Flock https://www.flocksafety.com/ https://www.flocksafety.com/ but it doesn't require a home owner's association to set up and it's inexpensive. (Flock focuses on storing license plates.) Stuff like this helps police do something about robberies and burglaries. It's harder to ignore and file away when there's video evidence. Megapixel IP cameras are getting cheaper and cheaper every day. We already live in a mass surveillance society with microphones and cameras in almost all of our rooms, with some people even installing Echos in their bathrooms. Instead of bad Big Brother, we get helpful Little Sister (Alexa, Siri, Kortana, ...). imo The only real way to completely escape it, is to avoid technology and live outside of large metros; away from civilization

kakarot 8y ago
> The only real way to completely escape it, is to avoid technology and live outside of large metros; away from civilization This is an incredibly subservient, defeatist attitude. I do not allow devices like Alexa into my home. I do not own a smart TV. Besides studio recording equipment, the only microphone in my house is on my phone. If I have my own cameras, and a burglary takes place, I will share that part of the video with the local police. Letting them just hook in is positively insane. Saying it's OK to let Big Brother into my house on the basis of fear and because Little Sister is already there is not only completely irrational, but cowardly as well. As the saying goes, "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."
- chaostheory 8y ago
  > This is an incredibly subservient, defeatist attitude. It's reality if you use a smart phone or own a tablet, or are around others that do. Do your friends and family own one? Do you not own and use a smart phone? You know the device that tracks your location and pushes your data to the cloud. Pretending that doesn't exist is just another instance of cognitive dissonance. Besides what happens when people take a picture of you? They post it to the cloud along with datetime and location data, and even names. A lot of people who value convenience above all do not realize what they are trading it for. Many of these people don't even realize that's what they value most. It's hard not to be in that category if you use almost any kind of cloud connected service. I'm only making blissfully ignorant people aware of it. Maybe you should reexamine the digital aspect of your own life before strongly judging me. > I do not allow devices like Alexa into my home. What about Siri, Google, or Kortana? Siri is on both iPhones and Macs now. Kortana is on every Win 10 machine. Google Assistant / Ok Google is on Chrome OS and Android. Do you own any IoT device? Even if they don't have a mic or camera, they can still track you and your habits. > "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security." I'm not sure how I've traded my liberty on this one. It's not like I voted for a Patriot Act, where I don't have a choice on what I'm willing to share. > Letting them just hook in is positively insane. If I have my own cameras, and a burglary takes place, I will share that part of the video with the local police. They don't "hook in". It's just NextDoor for Ring owners where it's easier to share video with other Ring owners and now police. You CAN pick and choose what you want to share on Ring Neighborhood. That's how it works. Again no one is forced to even join Ring Neighborhood and you pick and choose what you want to share. Most importantly, even after you join - you can opt out at anytime. People now have a better chance of getting police to deal with people who steal their packages.

zyren 8y ago

do you have a mirror to this? video has been taken down.

zyren 8y ago
found a mirror: https://vimeo.com/290482418 https://vimeo.com/290482418

conanbatt 8y ago

No encryption? You can siphon the videos from the ring device by just connecting on the same wifi? The concerns of allowing a surveillance state are real. I hope Jamie addresses all these concerns.