3 ms·

Ah yes, we should tell engineers they need a behavior adjustment. This doesn't happen enough.

stcredzero 8y ago
As a veteran programmer, I'd say that on average, engineers in the Bay Area do need an attitude adjustment. There are a lot of awesome people here, and bad behavior is an exception, but I've seen more douchey entitled behavior from Bay Area programmers than I have in the entire rest of my professional career. Another thing I seen too often from programmers, is a disdainful, even disgusted attitude when faced with negative feedback. The first reaction should be to try and understand where the feedback is coming from, not to disdain it. What I've seen too often, is a defensive retreat behind the idea that the feedback is coming from an idiot. The thing to remember about online idiots, is that a) most people aren't them, most of the time and b) even when someone is that, they are usually far different in real life.
- xvedejas 8y ago
  Is it the programmers/engineers that make the "incorrect" value judgements? It seems to me that it's usually the managers who are responsible for ethical gaps, and engineers are caught up in the act. That's the exact situation in which I would understand disdainful attitude.
- tomjen3 8y ago
  The feedback typically comes from people who think they are smarter than the engineers, or who have more social capital and so are used to be looked up to and respected. As such they get pissy when nerds question them. Nerds tend to accept good solid feedback when a good reason is given; nerds rightly disregard feedback that is about pleasing peoples egos. Really smart nerds do strike a balance, but egos should be considered a flaw, and worked around as any other flaw.
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    The feedback typically comes from people who think they are smarter than the engineers I know exactly the kind of feedback of which you speak. I once hired a tester to test a 2D game with Asteroids movement mechanics. His feedback: "Where are the brakes? It doesn't go where I point it." Well, that's sort of the point of the Asteroids movement mechanic, and my tester didn't even bother to understand the point. Nerds tend to accept good solid feedback when a good reason is given; In my experience, not always. I've had a number of experiences where I explain my background as a fellow programmer, and I'm doing my level best at explaining in depth how I perceive a design as a user and why I'm reacting, and all too often, instead of getting clarifying questions or a reflection-back, I immediately get the start of some 'splainin. Conclusion jumped to after no iterations, and apparently after only a simple pattern-match. One time, I'd started explaining my reactions as a user, then got back a reply about the codebase. There were lots of changes to the UX, yet the major "plusses" for the change were from the POV of the programmer, and as a user, I'm left wondering, "What's in it for me?" Really smart nerds do strike a balance, but egos should be considered a flaw, and worked around as any other flaw. Most nerds never get past the point of only considering the egos of others to be a flaw.
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  I think that is a regional thing period - they exist everywhere but the concentration seems extra high. Look at the people living near the Hollywood sign who complain about tourists, complain of problems other areas would kill for and more. There unfortunately isn't a shortage of bad attitudes from everyone - rich or poor.

As a veteran programmer, I'd say that on average, engineers in the Bay Area do need an attitude adjustment. There are a lot of awesome people here, and bad behavior is an exception, but I've seen more douchey entitled behavior from Bay Area programmers than I have in the entire rest of my professional career. Another thing I seen too often from programmers, is a disdainful, even disgusted attitude when faced with negative feedback. The first reaction should be to try and understand where the feedback is coming from, not to disdain it. What I've seen too often, is a defensive retreat behind the idea that the feedback is coming from an idiot. The thing to remember about online idiots, is that a) most people aren't them, most of the time and b) even when someone is that, they are usually far different in real life.

xvedejas 8y ago
Is it the programmers/engineers that make the "incorrect" value judgements? It seems to me that it's usually the managers who are responsible for ethical gaps, and engineers are caught up in the act. That's the exact situation in which I would understand disdainful attitude.
tomjen3 8y ago
The feedback typically comes from people who think they are smarter than the engineers, or who have more social capital and so are used to be looked up to and respected. As such they get pissy when nerds question them. Nerds tend to accept good solid feedback when a good reason is given; nerds rightly disregard feedback that is about pleasing peoples egos. Really smart nerds do strike a balance, but egos should be considered a flaw, and worked around as any other flaw.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  The feedback typically comes from people who think they are smarter than the engineers I know exactly the kind of feedback of which you speak. I once hired a tester to test a 2D game with Asteroids movement mechanics. His feedback: "Where are the brakes? It doesn't go where I point it." Well, that's sort of the point of the Asteroids movement mechanic, and my tester didn't even bother to understand the point. Nerds tend to accept good solid feedback when a good reason is given; In my experience, not always. I've had a number of experiences where I explain my background as a fellow programmer, and I'm doing my level best at explaining in depth how I perceive a design as a user and why I'm reacting, and all too often, instead of getting clarifying questions or a reflection-back, I immediately get the start of some 'splainin. Conclusion jumped to after no iterations, and apparently after only a simple pattern-match. One time, I'd started explaining my reactions as a user, then got back a reply about the codebase. There were lots of changes to the UX, yet the major "plusses" for the change were from the POV of the programmer, and as a user, I'm left wondering, "What's in it for me?" Really smart nerds do strike a balance, but egos should be considered a flaw, and worked around as any other flaw. Most nerds never get past the point of only considering the egos of others to be a flaw.
Nasrudith 8y ago
I think that is a regional thing period - they exist everywhere but the concentration seems extra high. Look at the people living near the Hollywood sign who complain about tourists, complain of problems other areas would kill for and more. There unfortunately isn't a shortage of bad attitudes from everyone - rich or poor.