6 ms·

Agreed. The morphing sounds unfortunate but immaterial here. Calling a coworker a bitch should absolutely be grounds for dismissal in my opinion.

mpweiher 8y ago
I think you mis-spelled "grounds for a warning".
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
prepend 8y ago
That’s interesting as a blanket rule. Using the word should per the definition in rfc2119 [0] means that the recommendation is to dismiss. Not sure if you mean it this way. To me, personal insults are definitely not preferred, but it seems harsh to set a ground rule for dismissal if they are used. Is it just the word “bitch” or would “asshole” or “dickhead” or any pejorative also count? I think there are some categories that fall into this and if a racial slur is used then, to me, that falls into should territory. [0] https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt
- TaylorAlexander 8y ago
  This is just my opinion, and I don’t set employment policy anywhere. But at my place of work (a Google/Alphabet company), on my team, nobody behaves that antagonistically to anyone else as far as I know. Calling someone a bitch or a dick is pretty harsh compared to how we handle disagreements. That kind of behavior seems below our expectations in my opinion. I am, however, just an engineer and contractor, not a manager or policy maker.
Aloha 8y ago
Why should calling a co-worker a name be grounds for dismissal? grounds for a warning, or other punishment perhaps, but not ground for immediate dismissal.
- dpwm 8y ago
  It's a name which is associated with a certain level of contempt when applied by a man to a woman. It really depends on the jurisdiction's employment rights and very much on the context as to whether it could be grounds for dismissal, but I can certainly see situations where you could be summarily dismissed even in a jurisdiction with relatively strong employment protections, such as the UK. It's also worth noting that in some cases the employer is placed in a difficult position where they face a difficult choice: do nothing and they run the risk of an employee leaving citing constructive dismissal as management did nothing to handle the bullying; do something and risk retribution from the alleged. In some jurisdictions, sex discrimination in the workplace can lead to a substantial claim, so if you use aggressive language towards a female colleague in a 90% male workplace, HR is going to get twitchy. Allegations in the form of statements are substantive evidence when it comes to employment disputes and if gross misconduct is defined by your workplace as bullying or harassing co-workers, you can expect to be summarily dismissed. Also, employers can and frequently are wrong in their interpretation of what they can and cannot lawfully do. Again, this depends on jurisdiction but some jurisdictions have tribunals where you can take your case without the risk of costs being awarded against you.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    Does the same apply if I call a female coworker a name that signifies contempt without being so inflammatory? More to the point: what is wrong with me expressing my contempt for a coworker that should deserve termination, regardless of gender? Or am I expected to be a robot that exudes nothing but faux kindness? If so, save the cult for those with more tolerance for that sort of corporate nonsense.
    - TaylorAlexander 8y ago
      The issue is that you’re letting your issues turn in to personal attacks instead of taking your legitimate complaints to a manager. A workplace where workers take their problems out on each other sounds toxic and unprofessional to me.

mpweiher 8y ago

I think you mis-spelled "grounds for a warning".

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

prepend 8y ago

That’s interesting as a blanket rule. Using the word should per the definition in rfc2119 [0] means that the recommendation is to dismiss. Not sure if you mean it this way. To me, personal insults are definitely not preferred, but it seems harsh to set a ground rule for dismissal if they are used. Is it just the word “bitch” or would “asshole” or “dickhead” or any pejorative also count? I think there are some categories that fall into this and if a racial slur is used then, to me, that falls into should territory. [0] https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt

TaylorAlexander 8y ago
This is just my opinion, and I don’t set employment policy anywhere. But at my place of work (a Google/Alphabet company), on my team, nobody behaves that antagonistically to anyone else as far as I know. Calling someone a bitch or a dick is pretty harsh compared to how we handle disagreements. That kind of behavior seems below our expectations in my opinion. I am, however, just an engineer and contractor, not a manager or policy maker.

Aloha 8y ago

Why should calling a co-worker a name be grounds for dismissal? grounds for a warning, or other punishment perhaps, but not ground for immediate dismissal.

dpwm 8y ago
It's a name which is associated with a certain level of contempt when applied by a man to a woman. It really depends on the jurisdiction's employment rights and very much on the context as to whether it could be grounds for dismissal, but I can certainly see situations where you could be summarily dismissed even in a jurisdiction with relatively strong employment protections, such as the UK. It's also worth noting that in some cases the employer is placed in a difficult position where they face a difficult choice: do nothing and they run the risk of an employee leaving citing constructive dismissal as management did nothing to handle the bullying; do something and risk retribution from the alleged. In some jurisdictions, sex discrimination in the workplace can lead to a substantial claim, so if you use aggressive language towards a female colleague in a 90% male workplace, HR is going to get twitchy. Allegations in the form of statements are substantive evidence when it comes to employment disputes and if gross misconduct is defined by your workplace as bullying or harassing co-workers, you can expect to be summarily dismissed. Also, employers can and frequently are wrong in their interpretation of what they can and cannot lawfully do. Again, this depends on jurisdiction but some jurisdictions have tribunals where you can take your case without the risk of costs being awarded against you.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  Does the same apply if I call a female coworker a name that signifies contempt without being so inflammatory? More to the point: what is wrong with me expressing my contempt for a coworker that should deserve termination, regardless of gender? Or am I expected to be a robot that exudes nothing but faux kindness? If so, save the cult for those with more tolerance for that sort of corporate nonsense.
  - TaylorAlexander 8y ago
    The issue is that you’re letting your issues turn in to personal attacks instead of taking your legitimate complaints to a manager. A workplace where workers take their problems out on each other sounds toxic and unprofessional to me.