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>But I think it's dangerous for programmers to focus on building a thing rather than serving their users. Dangerous for whom? Mastodon isn't a product, it's a

>But I think it's dangerous for programmers to focus on building a thing rather than serving their users. Dangerous for whom? Mastodon isn't a product, it's an open source project. More active users is nice, but isn't fundamental to the project; it will continue as long as there are people interested in working on it.

wpietri 8y ago
Your theory here seems to be that usage isn't the point, that people writing code is all that matters. I think that's a fair measure for a repository of code golf examples, or something where it's just a bunch of people scratching their own itches. But Mastodon is an inherently social product. I don't believe it has any meaning without usage. And clearly, the Mastodon people know that, which is why they talk about the number of registered users. But the danger with vanity metrics is that a lot of effort can get wasted. That wasted effort can snowball. If a product has a lot of features that nobody uses, it can make future additions and product evolution harder. That can also discourage adoption. And I think the additional danger for Mastodon is that as the most prominent of the open-source social network alternatives, its success or failure will be seen as the success or failure of alternatives to Twitter, etc.
- ryukafalz 8y ago
  Sure, at a certain point it doesn't mean anything without usage. But I'd argue Mastodon passed that threshold a long time ago. There's a decent community around it at this point, and people seem to enjoy it. >But the danger with vanity metrics is that a lot of effort can get wasted. What makes someone's effort "wasted"? IMO, if the developers enjoy working on it, their effort wasn't wasted. Not every project (even if it's a social network!) needs to appeal to everyone in the world, not everyone needs to be out for world domination, and that's okay.
  - wpietri 8y ago
    If the developers enjoy working on it and they have consciously chosen that as their only intent then the effort isn't wasted. But I don't think the Mastodon developers see the purpose of their software as some sort of technical onanism. If you look at their web site, it's clear their goal is "social networking, back in your hands". Vanity metrics lead to wasted effort relative to goals like that.

wpietri 8y ago

Your theory here seems to be that usage isn't the point, that people writing code is all that matters. I think that's a fair measure for a repository of code golf examples, or something where it's just a bunch of people scratching their own itches. But Mastodon is an inherently social product. I don't believe it has any meaning without usage. And clearly, the Mastodon people know that, which is why they talk about the number of registered users. But the danger with vanity metrics is that a lot of effort can get wasted. That wasted effort can snowball. If a product has a lot of features that nobody uses, it can make future additions and product evolution harder. That can also discourage adoption. And I think the additional danger for Mastodon is that as the most prominent of the open-source social network alternatives, its success or failure will be seen as the success or failure of alternatives to Twitter, etc.

ryukafalz 8y ago
Sure, at a certain point it doesn't mean anything without usage. But I'd argue Mastodon passed that threshold a long time ago. There's a decent community around it at this point, and people seem to enjoy it. >But the danger with vanity metrics is that a lot of effort can get wasted. What makes someone's effort "wasted"? IMO, if the developers enjoy working on it, their effort wasn't wasted. Not every project (even if it's a social network!) needs to appeal to everyone in the world, not everyone needs to be out for world domination, and that's okay.
- wpietri 8y ago
  If the developers enjoy working on it and they have consciously chosen that as their only intent then the effort isn't wasted. But I don't think the Mastodon developers see the purpose of their software as some sort of technical onanism. If you look at their web site, it's clear their goal is "social networking, back in your hands". Vanity metrics lead to wasted effort relative to goals like that.