4 ms·

The difference is that the House of Commons elects the Cabinet; not so in the EU (that's IMO where half of the problem is coming from). In the future, when we'

by tomp 8y ago

The difference is that the House of Commons elects the Cabinet; not so in the EU (that's IMO where half of the problem is coming from). In the future, when we're setting up even larger multinational organisations (even a world government), EU will be a good example of what not to do.

kazen44 8y ago
Except that this is simply not true, the head of the european comission is elected through the EU parlement, and the rest is appointed by the council of ministers. (which are appointed by the national elections of each member state). People should stop comparing the EU to any other national system, because it is inherently an supranational and intergovermental system.
- tomp 8y ago
  haha which part of my comment is "simply not true"?! the parliament doesn't elect the commission, we both seem to agree on that
  - isostatic 8y ago
    That "House of Commons elects the Cabinet" MPs in the house of commons elect the Prime Minister (typically this means the leader of the largest party). Technically it's the Queen appointing them, I believe on advice of the civil service on the basis that they will be able to command a vote of confidence, but in practice it's the MPs themselves. The Prime Minister then appoints the cabinet, most of whom will be elected MPs by their local constituents (in practice at least half of the seats in the UK are "safe seats", meaning the MP is appointed by local party memebrs) The Prime Minister also appoints one of the EU commissioners (and the PM's counterparts in the other EU states also appoint one). The EU parliament elects the president of the commission from a pool suggested by the heads of government. That president then allocates each of the commissioners they've been sent by governments to various roles.
pavlov 8y ago
In the UK, voters elect MPs who choose the Cabinet. In the EU, voters elect national governments who each appoint a member to the EU Commission. The EU Parliament also gets a say in the election of the Commission President. Obviously it's a compromise because national governments don't want to give up their power. But it's not as undemocratic as is often claimed.
- tomp 8y ago
  I'm not saying it's undemocratic. Just that the purpose of the parliament, and EU parties, is much more limited than it should be; no wonder that people then don't really care about EU elections.
  - kazen44 8y ago
    The trouble with their limited influence has mainly to do with the fact that the political capital to lead european parties take the lead (instead of national ones) is something which is currently political suicide among many politicians. This is a chicken and egg problem, national politicians can always blame the EU for their problems, and the European political parties are not able to prove their worth because they are being held down by national politics of member states. One solutions would be a completely seperate system, but that would require some form of federalisation, which is politically and culturally not feasable at the moment.

by tomp 8y ago

kazen44 8y ago

Except that this is simply not true, the head of the european comission is elected through the EU parlement, and the rest is appointed by the council of ministers. (which are appointed by the national elections of each member state). People should stop comparing the EU to any other national system, because it is inherently an supranational and intergovermental system.

tomp 8y ago
haha which part of my comment is "simply not true"?! the parliament doesn't elect the commission, we both seem to agree on that
- isostatic 8y ago
  That "House of Commons elects the Cabinet" MPs in the house of commons elect the Prime Minister (typically this means the leader of the largest party). Technically it's the Queen appointing them, I believe on advice of the civil service on the basis that they will be able to command a vote of confidence, but in practice it's the MPs themselves. The Prime Minister then appoints the cabinet, most of whom will be elected MPs by their local constituents (in practice at least half of the seats in the UK are "safe seats", meaning the MP is appointed by local party memebrs) The Prime Minister also appoints one of the EU commissioners (and the PM's counterparts in the other EU states also appoint one). The EU parliament elects the president of the commission from a pool suggested by the heads of government. That president then allocates each of the commissioners they've been sent by governments to various roles.

pavlov 8y ago

In the UK, voters elect MPs who choose the Cabinet. In the EU, voters elect national governments who each appoint a member to the EU Commission. The EU Parliament also gets a say in the election of the Commission President. Obviously it's a compromise because national governments don't want to give up their power. But it's not as undemocratic as is often claimed.

tomp 8y ago
I'm not saying it's undemocratic. Just that the purpose of the parliament, and EU parties, is much more limited than it should be; no wonder that people then don't really care about EU elections.
- kazen44 8y ago
  The trouble with their limited influence has mainly to do with the fact that the political capital to lead european parties take the lead (instead of national ones) is something which is currently political suicide among many politicians. This is a chicken and egg problem, national politicians can always blame the EU for their problems, and the European political parties are not able to prove their worth because they are being held down by national politics of member states. One solutions would be a completely seperate system, but that would require some form of federalisation, which is politically and culturally not feasable at the moment.