3 ms·

Looks like it's time to upgrade building codes. I wonder what it would take to make 150mph winds survivable by homes and hangars.

gonzo41 8y ago
Lots and lots of concrete. Which isn't that expensive if you've going to rebuild a state. The bigger problem for Florida is that it has no high terrain to absorb the hit. Britton Hill is a mere 345 feet above sea level. Which makes Florida a big sand bar that storms just roll over.
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  I would start with using screws/bolts instead of nails holding the wood to the foundation. It takes a lot to pull that loose. The other problem is the roof being lifted off from suction. I would bet that bolting it to the frame would stop a lot of that. With relatively minor changes like that, an ordinary wood frame house should be considerably stronger.
  - noir_lord 8y ago
    All that stuff exists, you can get re-enforced roof and truss connections and hurricane ties to upgrade existing buildings. The issue is as always cost, people operate on a "why spend the money it may never happen" risk model generally and are averse to dealing with a problem til it punches them (personally) in the face, I mean this isn't new, as a species we don't deal with things until it gets to the brink. If you want a fascinating example of this in the general case read up on the Clean Air Act in the UK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Air_Act_1956 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Air_Act_1956
    - skookumchuck 8y ago
      That's why there's building codes. After all, I don't want the wreckage from your house smashing into mine.
  - burfog 8y ago
    This has been the building code in Florida for a quarter century. Most people do better. Typical construction in Florida is concrete block. There is no "ordinary wood frame house" in Florida. That would be out of place. We have termites, but not concrete-eating termites. To me it feels like the houses are about 5% wood frame, 90% concrete block, and 5% solid poured concrete that could stop a truck tossed by a tornado.
    - skookumchuck 8y ago
      If I was an architect, I'd be headed to Florida first to survey the damaged and undamaged and see what design elements worked and what failed. Then hang out my shingle to offer this expertise for the rebuild.
  - kwhitefoot 8y ago
    That's how they do it on the west coast of Norway plus not having any overhangs, no or very small eaves.
Amezarak 8y ago
Tyndall AFB is right on the water. Say you can survive 150 mph winds. Now your problem is the seawater 15+ ft deep filled with debris and driven by 150mph winds rushing in and back out.
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  A wall can blunt the force of the water, even if it still floods.
  - Amezarak 8y ago
    Yes, but everything inside is still ruined and has to be torn out, often including the wall. Any home filled with water has to be completely gutted. You're also talking about a very serious wall. Fast moving water is extremely powerful and heavy - and it can also wash out the earth beneath you. And it's carrying all manner of debris. It can drop concrete bridge pilings on your house, for example. I cleaned up after Katrina. There's really nothing we can practically build for these types of situations. Most houses will survive the winds, unless they're hit by a tornado, a tree falls on them, they're especially unlucky, or have unusually poor construction. A lot of people on HN seem to have this idea that we just need better building codes. That is not my experience.

gonzo41 8y ago

Lots and lots of concrete. Which isn't that expensive if you've going to rebuild a state. The bigger problem for Florida is that it has no high terrain to absorb the hit. Britton Hill is a mere 345 feet above sea level. Which makes Florida a big sand bar that storms just roll over.

skookumchuck 8y ago
I would start with using screws/bolts instead of nails holding the wood to the foundation. It takes a lot to pull that loose. The other problem is the roof being lifted off from suction. I would bet that bolting it to the frame would stop a lot of that. With relatively minor changes like that, an ordinary wood frame house should be considerably stronger.
- noir_lord 8y ago
  All that stuff exists, you can get re-enforced roof and truss connections and hurricane ties to upgrade existing buildings. The issue is as always cost, people operate on a "why spend the money it may never happen" risk model generally and are averse to dealing with a problem til it punches them (personally) in the face, I mean this isn't new, as a species we don't deal with things until it gets to the brink. If you want a fascinating example of this in the general case read up on the Clean Air Act in the UK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Air_Act_1956 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Air_Act_1956
  - skookumchuck 8y ago
    That's why there's building codes. After all, I don't want the wreckage from your house smashing into mine.
- burfog 8y ago
  This has been the building code in Florida for a quarter century. Most people do better. Typical construction in Florida is concrete block. There is no "ordinary wood frame house" in Florida. That would be out of place. We have termites, but not concrete-eating termites. To me it feels like the houses are about 5% wood frame, 90% concrete block, and 5% solid poured concrete that could stop a truck tossed by a tornado.
  - skookumchuck 8y ago
    If I was an architect, I'd be headed to Florida first to survey the damaged and undamaged and see what design elements worked and what failed. Then hang out my shingle to offer this expertise for the rebuild.
- kwhitefoot 8y ago
  That's how they do it on the west coast of Norway plus not having any overhangs, no or very small eaves.

Amezarak 8y ago

Tyndall AFB is right on the water. Say you can survive 150 mph winds. Now your problem is the seawater 15+ ft deep filled with debris and driven by 150mph winds rushing in and back out.

skookumchuck 8y ago
A wall can blunt the force of the water, even if it still floods.
- Amezarak 8y ago
  Yes, but everything inside is still ruined and has to be torn out, often including the wall. Any home filled with water has to be completely gutted. You're also talking about a very serious wall. Fast moving water is extremely powerful and heavy - and it can also wash out the earth beneath you. And it's carrying all manner of debris. It can drop concrete bridge pilings on your house, for example. I cleaned up after Katrina. There's really nothing we can practically build for these types of situations. Most houses will survive the winds, unless they're hit by a tornado, a tree falls on them, they're especially unlucky, or have unusually poor construction. A lot of people on HN seem to have this idea that we just need better building codes. That is not my experience.