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>Soon the default will shift from us interacting directly with our devices to interacting with devices we have no control over and no knowledge that we are gene

>Soon the default will shift from us interacting directly with our devices to interacting with devices we have no control over and no knowledge that we are generating data. That's already the case. The big problem is that no one cares about it, because it seems like everything just work fine. I don't know and I can't tell if bad things will happen to us with our data everywhere, but it's possible. But how could we possibly convince "normal" people that giving your data out for free is bad?

toufiqbarhamov 8y ago
I’ve tried and failed more often than not. Most of the time the very subject matter is so “boring” that I never get very far. I’m not sure what to do either, most people don’t see the problem and find the topic too obscure to inform themselves.
- isodude 8y ago
  It takes a special mind to delve into such topics. This will and has been the case. Those that understands it becomes responsible to inform other of which settings they should have. While not needing to explaining why. That should apply to most (scientists, networking, philosophy). I think the above mindset at least helps me out to really dumb it down/skip to the real effects when speaking to others. Well, I try ;) But there's always a shimmer of hope that someone will pick something up and go deeper, but that does not happen regularly. So what to do? Start an online group with people with the same focus and do the battle. Nobody else will care until it's changed and it starts to affect their daily life.
candiodari 8y ago
The issue with that is that it's not "your" data. Not because you owe it to the internet companies, or because you give it to the government, which then uses it both for commercial purposes and directly against you (pervasive in China). Your data is not yours because you aren't unique enough to have unique data. So there are tens of thousands of humans alive that are essentially direct copies of you, at least in terms of behavior. They might have a different address, but they can be influenced in exactly the same way. So this is not a battle that can be won.
- Individualist 8y ago
  Depends on what you mean by won. Is your data used to make you a better consumer or prosumer? Is data collected without your knowledge actually useful? Twitter data jumps to mind, a lot of junk.
  - candiodari 8y ago
    Meaning that keeping data away from people who would use it for their own purposes, from selling you something to impounding your car if you're behind on payments cannot realistically be accompolished. For each use, judge for yourself if that's good or bad, effective or ineffective, but the purpose doesn't change whether the data is available or not.
    - Individualist 8y ago
      Bad data is bad data. It's true it gets averaged out due to the masses. Still it does provide a somewhat accurate picture, but has a degree of error. Best means I can argue this are colleagues in plant life and marine biology using the same tools are still attempting to get concrete predictive data for the environment. It's simply not there yet.
      - candiodari 8y ago
        Nope. What I'm saying is that YOU're average (and me, and everyone). Which means that given a few facts about you, the rest can be correctly inferred. Which means that you cannot prevent systems from inferring how you can, say, be induced to buy something, because you cannot keep those few trivial facts it needs for that from the system.
        Individualist 8y ago
        I keep getting ads for things I do not want to buy due to the average. For example a championship belt that recently has a tacked on women in my feed. By no means is that something that interests me but can understand the average may be tempted. In regards to the younger generations I definitely understand the fear. But we get bored as a species, otherwise networks would never of gone down the outrage path of targeted ads had an absolute effect. And even then more and more people are setting aside their smart phones and jumping off of social media or just using it for the bare minimum. What you are arguing is happening, but whether or not we are truly on the last leg of the data argument is not true. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpenter_v._United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpenter_v._United_States
diminoten 8y ago
Because everything is fine. The big conceit from privacy advocates is they think people don't know their data is being collected and used, but the reality is, they do know. They just don't care. Show me a concrete negative impact on my life as a result of the passive data collection perpetrated by Google, Facebook, et. al., and you might change my mind, depending on how negative it is. I get a lot out of the products I pay for with my data. It feels like a bargain, honestly.
- sveme 8y ago
  If a company uses the tracking data to personalize prizes of stuff that you are interested in, you suddenly might pay much more than you think without ever being aware of it.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    I doubt that a) companies would do that in general and b) the few that do are charging low enough of a premium that they're still competitive.
    - skummetmaelk 8y ago
      You doubt that companies would do this? Amazon already does it. Airline companies use location heuristics.
      - diminoten 8y ago
        > Amazon already does it. No they don't.
- hahahihi 8y ago
  As we dont know what the future will bring ethnic clensing is a realistic cenario. It wont happen or it wont happen to me lacks optimism about how long the future lasts.
  - 8y ago

toufiqbarhamov 8y ago

I’ve tried and failed more often than not. Most of the time the very subject matter is so “boring” that I never get very far. I’m not sure what to do either, most people don’t see the problem and find the topic too obscure to inform themselves.

isodude 8y ago
It takes a special mind to delve into such topics. This will and has been the case. Those that understands it becomes responsible to inform other of which settings they should have. While not needing to explaining why. That should apply to most (scientists, networking, philosophy). I think the above mindset at least helps me out to really dumb it down/skip to the real effects when speaking to others. Well, I try ;) But there's always a shimmer of hope that someone will pick something up and go deeper, but that does not happen regularly. So what to do? Start an online group with people with the same focus and do the battle. Nobody else will care until it's changed and it starts to affect their daily life.

candiodari 8y ago

The issue with that is that it's not "your" data. Not because you owe it to the internet companies, or because you give it to the government, which then uses it both for commercial purposes and directly against you (pervasive in China). Your data is not yours because you aren't unique enough to have unique data. So there are tens of thousands of humans alive that are essentially direct copies of you, at least in terms of behavior. They might have a different address, but they can be influenced in exactly the same way. So this is not a battle that can be won.

Individualist 8y ago
Depends on what you mean by won. Is your data used to make you a better consumer or prosumer? Is data collected without your knowledge actually useful? Twitter data jumps to mind, a lot of junk.
- candiodari 8y ago
  Meaning that keeping data away from people who would use it for their own purposes, from selling you something to impounding your car if you're behind on payments cannot realistically be accompolished. For each use, judge for yourself if that's good or bad, effective or ineffective, but the purpose doesn't change whether the data is available or not.
  - Individualist 8y ago
    Bad data is bad data. It's true it gets averaged out due to the masses. Still it does provide a somewhat accurate picture, but has a degree of error. Best means I can argue this are colleagues in plant life and marine biology using the same tools are still attempting to get concrete predictive data for the environment. It's simply not there yet.
    - candiodari 8y ago
      Nope. What I'm saying is that YOU're average (and me, and everyone). Which means that given a few facts about you, the rest can be correctly inferred. Which means that you cannot prevent systems from inferring how you can, say, be induced to buy something, because you cannot keep those few trivial facts it needs for that from the system.
      - Individualist 8y ago
        I keep getting ads for things I do not want to buy due to the average. For example a championship belt that recently has a tacked on women in my feed. By no means is that something that interests me but can understand the average may be tempted. In regards to the younger generations I definitely understand the fear. But we get bored as a species, otherwise networks would never of gone down the outrage path of targeted ads had an absolute effect. And even then more and more people are setting aside their smart phones and jumping off of social media or just using it for the bare minimum. What you are arguing is happening, but whether or not we are truly on the last leg of the data argument is not true. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpenter_v._United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpenter_v._United_States

diminoten 8y ago

Because everything is fine. The big conceit from privacy advocates is they think people don't know their data is being collected and used, but the reality is, they do know. They just don't care. Show me a concrete negative impact on my life as a result of the passive data collection perpetrated by Google, Facebook, et. al., and you might change my mind, depending on how negative it is. I get a lot out of the products I pay for with my data. It feels like a bargain, honestly.

sveme 8y ago
If a company uses the tracking data to personalize prizes of stuff that you are interested in, you suddenly might pay much more than you think without ever being aware of it.
- diminoten 8y ago
  I doubt that a) companies would do that in general and b) the few that do are charging low enough of a premium that they're still competitive.
  - skummetmaelk 8y ago
    You doubt that companies would do this? Amazon already does it. Airline companies use location heuristics.
    - diminoten 8y ago
      > Amazon already does it. No they don't.
hahahihi 8y ago
As we dont know what the future will bring ethnic clensing is a realistic cenario. It wont happen or it wont happen to me lacks optimism about how long the future lasts.
- 8y ago