10 ms·

One prominent counterpoint to this article is the school of Afrofuturism. Lately, we have seen a resurgence in this thought line ranging from Black Panther to J

One prominent counterpoint to this article is the school of Afrofuturism. Lately, we have seen a resurgence in this thought line ranging from Black Panther to Janelle Monae. But those of us in technology often are not aware of this very important, visionary futuristic movement. I'll also add if you haven't seen Black Panther, go and see it. Most science fiction reminds me of Kowloon by day, Tokyo by night. It is so refreshing to see a different, Africa-centric view of the future. Think Nairobi 2080.

tristo 8y ago
So you think futurism should be based around black people? Congrats that's racist and ethnocentric. Maybe this scenario is unlikely to happen given the present situation? Most African countries have barely enough water and you expect them to become tech leaders tomorrow?
- kienankb 8y ago
  That's...not at all what they said...
- dang 8y ago
  We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.
djpr 8y ago
I agree with and excited about this development. I'm an academically trained futurist and I'm continually frustrated by the future as being techno-solutionist-driven and mostly Western or some Hong Kong/Tokyo future. Black Panther, I hope, will help people to be inspired by other ideas of what the future can be - from different cultural lenses, changes in view of technology, changes in ways of doing etc. It's about decolonizing the future and opening the door to other ways of being. Here's one of my favorite piece of futures work that I like to talk about. It's about the future of human relationships: https://jfsdigital.org/2017/09/22/the-future-of-marriage/ https://jfsdigital.org/2017/09/22/the-future-of-marriage/ Yes, it's still techno-driven and still very San Francisco, but at least its not about flying cars or fancy tech, just different ways of being.
- whatshisface 8y ago
  >“Marriage Rebranded” – Short-term or “beta” marriages offer couples the chance to test the waters before being legally bound. People expect less from marriage. Haha, someone should let this author know about dating.
  - retsibsi 8y ago
    > dating Sounds more like pre-marital cohabitation (which is also already common), but perhaps with a more explicit and formalised sense that this is a time-limited 'trial phase'. I wonder why this goes together with reduced expectations; I can imagine it leading to a resurgance in the belief that marriage is for life, by reducing the number of impulsive and semi-informed marriages. But maybe that goes hand in hand with the rejection of some less-realistic romantic ideals we have about the role of a life partner?
    - valesco 8y ago
      >Sounds more like pre-marital cohabitation (which is also already common), but perhaps with a more explicit and formalised sense that this is a time-limited 'trial phase'. That already exists, at least in Belgium (legal cohabitation) and in France (PACS).
      - dleslie 8y ago
        And in British Columbia, Canada; here there is no meaningful differentiation between a contractual Marriage and a common-law Marriage by cohabitation.
- loosetypes 8y ago
  > "I'm an academically trained futurist" What does this mean? > "and I'm continually frustrated by the future as being techno-solutionist-driven and mostly Western or some Hong Kong/Tokyo future." The future as it is and has been coming to pass? How we, today and recently, culturally portray the idea of the future?
dleslie 8y ago
Tokyo-by-night is a by-product of the 80s American panic over Japanese competitiveness in technology and manufacturing. It's a common theme of media at the time. Something similar probably needs to occur for Nairobi to find its strong footing in the western futurism.
- nubbins 8y ago
  Sure but Tokyo is also a real place that was aesthetically pretty unique and way more futuristic looking than anywhere else at the time (other than maybe HK). Id be interested in African scifi/cyberpunk but at least for film it doesn’t quite have the same punch to me.
  - jacobush 8y ago
    "it doesn’t quite have the same punch to me" I think one reason for that could be that the Wakanda city in Black Panther looks and feels like a city dressed in cultural heritage or a theme park, with regular "western looking" high tech insides. Look at the lab for instance. Your generic villain/Star Trek/Super Hero/Industrial lab. The whole city looks very Star Trek, very bland. I don't dislike it, but it's been done in countless STTNG episodes. I think a depiction of an African sci-fi where the tech and the soft is reversed, would be very interesting. In Wakanda you have cultural theme park on the outside, hard tech on the inside. I'd rather see the opposite - hard generic tech on the outside, commandeered by a creamy, cultural inside. Background: Maybe the African continent was mostly spared in some kind of cataclysmic event, now some African countries are super rich from trading food and skilled labor (management and security detail mostly?) to the rest of the world for tech and tech know how in return. Refugees line its border and only people with strong know how and good teaching skills are let in. The opening scene could get some inspiration from Chappy and District 9, but with an even stronger emphasis on tech as super advanced but casual - make the connection as well to advanced tech and magic. Skip the step where people stop believing in magic.
    - dleslie 8y ago
      > I'd rather see the opposite - hard generic tech on the outside, commandeered by a creamy, cultural inside. This sounds a bit like the tech/culture mix of the predator species of the series of the same name. Particularly in Predator 2, with the crashed tech ship and its ceremonial displays internally.
arkh 8y ago
You may want to read the Poseidon's Children trilogy from Alastair Reynolds.
hackcasual 8y ago
I'd recommend "Futureland: Nine Stories of an Imminent World," for those who enjoy cyberpunk fiction.
nikofeyn 8y ago
janelle monae is awesome, but could you elaborate on what you mean by mentioning black panther? i felt it was the same action packed drivel and cgi fest as all the other marvel movies. the fashion in the movie is great, but it also has some rather antiquated elements, like the primal way of choosing who is king, that are the opposite of futurism. the social and cultural commentary performed by the marvel movies is about as superficial as you can get.
- djpr 8y ago
  Not the OP, but I can share what I got from Black Panther: 1. When they're in the market, people are still walking around in sandals and even barefoot. This is counter to either ultra-sleek hygienic futures or the film noir/cyberpunk look where everything is dirty and wet. In this area, it's a bit more like Star Wars. 2. One of the elder advisors is wearing a giant lip ring (sorry, don't know what its called): https://media.comicbook.com/2017/06/black-panther-green-suit-1002072-1280x0.png https://media.comicbook.com/2017/06/black-panther-green-suit... Basically, it means you can be "modern" but on your own terms (that is, have your ethnic identity still represented). 3. I like the idea that an African country being the most technologically advanced nation on earth, not Japan, China, or the US...but an African country! I think #4 is very subversive (for unfortunate reasons). It really made me think what would it take for an African country - be it Nigerian, Botswana, South Africa etc - to compete with the likes of Singapore or California. 4. Lastly, I like the idea of the weapon that look organic rather than looks "hi-tech": https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/3e274163-f36d-4b79-bff7-25ad30f6df8e/scale-to-width-down/800 https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/3e274163-f36d-4b79-bff7-... I am okay with the kingdom part. Part of future studies is also the idea that the past can be revisited. In our academically training, one of the things we talk about is that the future is not exponentially changing in a linear direction (like Singularity folks), it can be circular, stagnant, and go "backwards", etc. For me, the bigger issue is that despite being technologically advanced they're basically a vibranium-based economy, which makes me assume that they would have the same problems as petro-states. Perhaps that explains why they're a monarchy?
  - dleslie 8y ago
    > I think #4 is very subversive (for unfortunate reasons). It really made me think what would it take for an African country - be it Nigerian, Botswana, South Africa etc - to compete with the likes of Singapore or California. Part of the conceptual difficulty, I think, is the Western vision of Africa as being one place with one peoples. It's a bit like how Western nations view their own indigenous groups, only worse: with a broad, homogeneous, inaccurate portrayal. The futures of Morocco, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Nigeria, Ethiopia and South Africa are likely to lack homogeneity.

tristo 8y ago

So you think futurism should be based around black people? Congrats that's racist and ethnocentric. Maybe this scenario is unlikely to happen given the present situation? Most African countries have barely enough water and you expect them to become tech leaders tomorrow?

kienankb 8y ago
That's...not at all what they said...
dang 8y ago
We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.

djpr 8y ago

I agree with and excited about this development. I'm an academically trained futurist and I'm continually frustrated by the future as being techno-solutionist-driven and mostly Western or some Hong Kong/Tokyo future. Black Panther, I hope, will help people to be inspired by other ideas of what the future can be - from different cultural lenses, changes in view of technology, changes in ways of doing etc. It's about decolonizing the future and opening the door to other ways of being. Here's one of my favorite piece of futures work that I like to talk about. It's about the future of human relationships: https://jfsdigital.org/2017/09/22/the-future-of-marriage/ https://jfsdigital.org/2017/09/22/the-future-of-marriage/ Yes, it's still techno-driven and still very San Francisco, but at least its not about flying cars or fancy tech, just different ways of being.

whatshisface 8y ago
>“Marriage Rebranded” – Short-term or “beta” marriages offer couples the chance to test the waters before being legally bound. People expect less from marriage. Haha, someone should let this author know about dating.
- retsibsi 8y ago
  > dating Sounds more like pre-marital cohabitation (which is also already common), but perhaps with a more explicit and formalised sense that this is a time-limited 'trial phase'. I wonder why this goes together with reduced expectations; I can imagine it leading to a resurgance in the belief that marriage is for life, by reducing the number of impulsive and semi-informed marriages. But maybe that goes hand in hand with the rejection of some less-realistic romantic ideals we have about the role of a life partner?
  - valesco 8y ago
    >Sounds more like pre-marital cohabitation (which is also already common), but perhaps with a more explicit and formalised sense that this is a time-limited 'trial phase'. That already exists, at least in Belgium (legal cohabitation) and in France (PACS).
    - dleslie 8y ago
      And in British Columbia, Canada; here there is no meaningful differentiation between a contractual Marriage and a common-law Marriage by cohabitation.
loosetypes 8y ago
> "I'm an academically trained futurist" What does this mean? > "and I'm continually frustrated by the future as being techno-solutionist-driven and mostly Western or some Hong Kong/Tokyo future." The future as it is and has been coming to pass? How we, today and recently, culturally portray the idea of the future?

dleslie 8y ago

Tokyo-by-night is a by-product of the 80s American panic over Japanese competitiveness in technology and manufacturing. It's a common theme of media at the time. Something similar probably needs to occur for Nairobi to find its strong footing in the western futurism.

nubbins 8y ago
Sure but Tokyo is also a real place that was aesthetically pretty unique and way more futuristic looking than anywhere else at the time (other than maybe HK). Id be interested in African scifi/cyberpunk but at least for film it doesn’t quite have the same punch to me.
- jacobush 8y ago
  "it doesn’t quite have the same punch to me" I think one reason for that could be that the Wakanda city in Black Panther looks and feels like a city dressed in cultural heritage or a theme park, with regular "western looking" high tech insides. Look at the lab for instance. Your generic villain/Star Trek/Super Hero/Industrial lab. The whole city looks very Star Trek, very bland. I don't dislike it, but it's been done in countless STTNG episodes. I think a depiction of an African sci-fi where the tech and the soft is reversed, would be very interesting. In Wakanda you have cultural theme park on the outside, hard tech on the inside. I'd rather see the opposite - hard generic tech on the outside, commandeered by a creamy, cultural inside. Background: Maybe the African continent was mostly spared in some kind of cataclysmic event, now some African countries are super rich from trading food and skilled labor (management and security detail mostly?) to the rest of the world for tech and tech know how in return. Refugees line its border and only people with strong know how and good teaching skills are let in. The opening scene could get some inspiration from Chappy and District 9, but with an even stronger emphasis on tech as super advanced but casual - make the connection as well to advanced tech and magic. Skip the step where people stop believing in magic.
  - dleslie 8y ago
    > I'd rather see the opposite - hard generic tech on the outside, commandeered by a creamy, cultural inside. This sounds a bit like the tech/culture mix of the predator species of the series of the same name. Particularly in Predator 2, with the crashed tech ship and its ceremonial displays internally.

arkh 8y ago

You may want to read the Poseidon's Children trilogy from Alastair Reynolds.

hackcasual 8y ago

I'd recommend "Futureland: Nine Stories of an Imminent World," for those who enjoy cyberpunk fiction.

nikofeyn 8y ago

janelle monae is awesome, but could you elaborate on what you mean by mentioning black panther? i felt it was the same action packed drivel and cgi fest as all the other marvel movies. the fashion in the movie is great, but it also has some rather antiquated elements, like the primal way of choosing who is king, that are the opposite of futurism. the social and cultural commentary performed by the marvel movies is about as superficial as you can get.

djpr 8y ago
Not the OP, but I can share what I got from Black Panther: 1. When they're in the market, people are still walking around in sandals and even barefoot. This is counter to either ultra-sleek hygienic futures or the film noir/cyberpunk look where everything is dirty and wet. In this area, it's a bit more like Star Wars. 2. One of the elder advisors is wearing a giant lip ring (sorry, don't know what its called): https://media.comicbook.com/2017/06/black-panther-green-suit-1002072-1280x0.png https://media.comicbook.com/2017/06/black-panther-green-suit... Basically, it means you can be "modern" but on your own terms (that is, have your ethnic identity still represented). 3. I like the idea that an African country being the most technologically advanced nation on earth, not Japan, China, or the US...but an African country! I think #4 is very subversive (for unfortunate reasons). It really made me think what would it take for an African country - be it Nigerian, Botswana, South Africa etc - to compete with the likes of Singapore or California. 4. Lastly, I like the idea of the weapon that look organic rather than looks "hi-tech": https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/3e274163-f36d-4b79-bff7-25ad30f6df8e/scale-to-width-down/800 https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/3e274163-f36d-4b79-bff7-... I am okay with the kingdom part. Part of future studies is also the idea that the past can be revisited. In our academically training, one of the things we talk about is that the future is not exponentially changing in a linear direction (like Singularity folks), it can be circular, stagnant, and go "backwards", etc. For me, the bigger issue is that despite being technologically advanced they're basically a vibranium-based economy, which makes me assume that they would have the same problems as petro-states. Perhaps that explains why they're a monarchy?
- dleslie 8y ago
  > I think #4 is very subversive (for unfortunate reasons). It really made me think what would it take for an African country - be it Nigerian, Botswana, South Africa etc - to compete with the likes of Singapore or California. Part of the conceptual difficulty, I think, is the Western vision of Africa as being one place with one peoples. It's a bit like how Western nations view their own indigenous groups, only worse: with a broad, homogeneous, inaccurate portrayal. The futures of Morocco, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Nigeria, Ethiopia and South Africa are likely to lack homogeneity.